eating a lot of rice causes tooth decay?

i am still on the quest of why my cavities are getting worse despite all of my efforts to remineralize my teeth... i am not eating sweet/sugary stuff. but i just realzed i am eating industrial quantities of white rice. that's a simple carbohydrate, isn't it? wouldn't it be almost as bad as sugar?

i am looking at this issue from the standpoint of that paper that showed tooth decay when sugar was fed directly to the stomach... simple carbohydrate or sugar it should have more or less the same effects...

by the way, what would be the best way to neutralize at least some of the sugar or carbohydrate intake?

thank you in advance!

my dad has horrible teeth.. white rice along with noodles have been his staple like 90% of his diet for all his life. my grandfather who has hardly ever brushed his teeth ate a lot of sesame paste and dark colored foods when he was younger, and he still has really good teeth

Could be the white rice (refined carbohydrate)...If not, maybe there is, in your case, something else that is controlling the "parotide hormone" that controls the dentin fluid flow that causes tooth decay (if it runs in the wrong direction).

This site presents this idea:
http://www.dr-jacques-imbeau.com/dentalcaries.html

They are saying: if the parotide hormone is not present in suficient quantities (it is inhibited by sugars and refined carbohydrates mainly) the normal dentin fluid transport reverses the direction and cavities are produced.

Can't you get a lab test for that hormone to know for sure?

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/252/4/E477.abstract

The feeding of pig chow is a potent stimulus for iPH secretion

what the hell is pig chow? from the paper you cited, it looks like they are using Purina Laboratory Chow from Ralston-Purina Co, St. Luis, Mo.

and by the way: is there some supplement that neutralizes sugars or carbohydrates?

thanks!

From my research on tooth decay, studies I have read have shown that sugar and carbs don't increase the amount of decay by noticeable amounts as long as you are still getting adequate amounts of protein, fat, and dairy products. Dairy products are most essential to avoid tooth decay, are you getting enough of that? The only time carbs and sugars are going to make your teeth suffer is when you are eating so much of it that you are using it to replace fats and proteins. Do you leave your mouth hanging open a lot so that it dries out your mouth?

Dairy products essential? That's pretty wack given how Dairy products are unnatural and an abomination to our health. What I'm guessing you mean, Espio, is that there are certain things within dairy products that are of benefit to teeth, but it's better to trim those out and get them from healthier sources than take the bad with the good.

Vitamins A, D, K2, Magnesium are all important.

Depending on your blood chemistry, fruit could be a problem for some people. If you drink a lot of fruit smoothies,
it could be a detrimental, except for those who can drink them all day long--totally depends on your blood chemistry.

Raw dairy is great for teeth, and would venture to say that regular dairy is as well. Raw milk is good, can't say that pasteurized milk would be.

nidhogge wrote:Dairy products essential? That's pretty wack given how Dairy products are unnatural and an abomination to our health. What I'm guessing you mean, Espio, is that there are certain things within dairy products that are of benefit to teeth, but it's better to trim those out and get them from healthier sources than take the bad with the good.

He didn't ask about a diet for all-around health, if that were the case then I would tell him a low-fat, low-dairy, high starch diet would be the best case. He is just asking about what diet to have for the health of his teeth, and yes, studies show that milk and dairy do help the teeth. Some studies point out that the groups who got a large amount of milk in their diet stopped dental caries 100% from forming. It is of course probably the calcium in dairy but no way to be certain unless you took another group in the study and made them dairy free but made them take a calcium supplement instead. Calcium and phosphorus is what makes up the ions in saliva that is used to repair the teeth.

In my opinion, there is no "ultimate diet". I like the low-fructose vegan diet for over-all health and slower aging because of the low mineral absorption. Unfortunately, a low mineral absorption diet caused me to get a big cavity. For oral health a high fat, high dairy diet is much better.

I think dairy is a food category where type and quality really count. The casein in goat and ewe milk products is much easier for humans to digest than that found in cow's milk. Historically these were the milks commonly used - cow's milk has only dominated in recent times, and even then only in certain areas. Best things to try are goat's milk kefir (raw if you can get) or a good quality cheese such as Roquefort. Kefir has a host of other benefits and may be ok for those lactose intolerant.

I noticed major dental deteriorationn a few months after giving up dairy so I can well believe is beneficial for teeth. True, the dairy most westerners consume is an abomination but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

nidhogge wrote:Dairy products essential? That's pretty wack given how Dairy products are unnatural and an abomination to our health. What I'm guessing you mean, Espio, is that there are certain things within dairy products that are of benefit to teeth, but it's better to trim those out and get them from healthier sources than take the bad with the good.

'

Nid you are missing out on an extremely beneficial food. Re-examine the evidence!

diffuse wrote:I think dairy is a food category where type and quality really count. The casein in goat and ewe milk products is much easier for humans to digest than that found in cow's milk. Historically these were the milks commonly used - cow's milk has only dominated in recent times, and even then only in certain areas. Best things to try are goat's milk kefir (raw if you can get) or a good quality cheese such as Roquefort. Kefir has a host of other benefits and may be ok for those lactose intolerant.

I noticed major dental deteriorationn a few months after giving up dairy so I can well believe is beneficial for teeth. True, the dairy most westerners consume is an abomination but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Totally second this! I've been consuming raw, grass fed, unpasturized goats milk kefir for quite some time now and it has only added tremendously to my health, including my teeth and nails.

nidhogge wrote:Dairy products essential? That's pretty wack given how Dairy products are unnatural and an abomination to our health. What I'm guessing you mean, Espio, is that there are certain things within dairy products that are of benefit to teeth, but it's better to trim those out and get them from healthier sources than take the bad with the good.

I'd love to see you tell that to the people of the caucasus mountains.

I agree that good sources of dairy seem to be beneficial. It took my system a few tries before raw milk stopped upsetting my stomach but now I feel good on it. This is from a dentist back at the turn of the last century (I think) about raw milk:

In his book Man Versus Toothache, Dr. George W. Heard states "I am convinced that where a person drinks plenty of pure raw milk, it makes up for the deficiencies in poor food otherwise. During my 30 years dental practice in Hereford, I cannot recall having found a patient with a bad mouth who had consumed milk enough in his diet. That is assuming that the milk was taken raw, not pasteurized."

http://healthyfixx.com/13/pasteurized-milk-killing-the-bad-and-the-good

Is there any benefits from pasteurised milk? I'm not sure if I'll be able to get raw milk near me. What about pasteurised but not homogenised?

tooyoung wrote:Is there any benefits from pasteurised milk? I'm not sure if I'll be able to get raw milk near me. What about pasteurised but not homogenised?

If you're talking about just for teeth, yes pasteurized milk has shown in studies to help prevent cavities. They sure as hell aren't doing these studies with raw milk.

Here is a quote from a study on rats:

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/41/1/13.full.pdf

"The isocaloric substitution of fat and protein for part of the sucrose in the purified ration resulted in substantial reactions in the incidence of tooth decay in comparison to that in the control rats. Administration of either mineralized fresh or evaporated milk as the sole source of nutrients re sulted in extremely low degrees of dental decay. The ad dition of 10% of sucrose by weight to either mineralized fresh or evaporated milk did not result in any appreciable increase in tooth decay above the average for the animals on the comparable milk diets alone. Caloric restriction re sulted in appreciably less tooth decay than in the control rats which were allowed to eat ad libitum. In each of the above results, the influence of dietary variation on the initiation and development of carious lesions in the caries-susceptible white rat is extremely comparable to the effect obtained with the same regimens in cotton rats."

This study shows us that it's not so much the sugar that causes tooth decay, as most dentists say. It's the lack of minerals especially calcium and phosphorous in the diet. Its just that people who eat a lot of sugar tend to not get other nutrients, and that causes tooth decay.

Thanks for the study Espio, what if we're talking about hair and health aswell as teeth?

I think it would depend if you get inflammation from it or not everybodies different CS has said cheese is fine for him but pasteurized milk is a no go.I think I handle it fine if i drink a little of the regular stuff, but organic grass fed(although pasteurized since it has to be since it's sold in store) is different for some reason I seem to handle as much of that as I want with health benefits.

tooyoung wrote:Thanks for the study Espio, what if we're talking about hair and health aswell as teeth?

I agree with jdp and CS that pasteurized milk is NOT good for overall health. As much as I would like to believe the simplistic view that there's certain foods that are perfect, and other foods that are evil. You can spend your life eating for your teeth, eating a high mineral, diet (meat, eggs, milk), and your teeth will be great, like my wife she's always eaten a high fat diet, never had a cavity or any teeth problems in her life. But the problem is you need to keep an eye on your ferritin, calcium, and other mineral levels to make sure you don't have an overload which is going to age you. She doesn't have to worry about iron fortunately because she is only 22 and loses blood every month. But too much calcium can be an issue for her.

I'd expect large amounts of regular dairy to be bad for hair in most people. The good stuff, I'd say neutral or slightly beneficial dependant on various factors.

Tooyoung, there are actually quite a few raw dairy suppliers in England, some listed here:

http://www.naturalfoodfinder.co.uk/unpasteurised-raw-milk-uk

Unfortunately I live in Scotland where due to an incident 30 years ago raw milk is banned. Which leads me to an obscure but related question, can't find answer anywhere. Goat's milk naturally has the smoother consistency that seems to be favoured these days...but in their infinite wisdom the only suppliers where I live "lightly homogenise" it anyway. Obviously this is bad news, but how bad? I'm thinking (hoping) maybe it isn't so bad for goat's milk compared to cow's milk since the globules aren't so big in the first place, but I have nothing whatsoever to substantiate that. Normally I'd just forget it but currently this would be my only economical option for making goat's milk kefir, which I am quite keen to try.

Seeing as this thread has derailed, a question for the raw milk experts:

Is it ok to freeze raw milk? How long can I keep it for etc.

abc and others, when you talk about "dairy" are you meaning milk? Or are you including other things such as eggs, butter, cheese. I eat a lot of those but not milk.

tooyoung wrote:abc and others, when you talk about "dairy" are you meaning milk? Or are you including other things such as eggs, butter, cheese. I eat a lot of those but not milk.

Eggs don't have much calcium, unless you are eating the shell

Eggs aren't dairy, but cheese and butter are. Again there is fair amount of variation in quality.

abc, I've read of companies who supply frozen raw milk, I assume it's ok. But one of the cool things about raw milk is that if it goes sour it's still perfectly usable and nutritous. On the other hand, pasteurised milk will putrefy instead.