Probiotics make you feel like crap? Sticky or loose stools?

I think the fact many people don't tolerate all probiotics very well is due to different reasons:

* Die off, release endotoxins (and other types) and increase inflammation and leakyness
* Excessive growth - they grew too much inside in the wrong places causing:
** Excessive deconjugation of bile acids (sticky stools, smelly, hard to clean) - Bifidobacteria overgrowth in the small intestines MIGHT be implicated, but not always. I remember people complaining too much discomfort from taking probiotics like Ohhira's... (not saying this is not good, just saying it might not be good for all people.. try and see)
** D-Lactate acidosis - too much of this metabolite causes problems, including neurological. Some probiotics produce ONLY L-Lactic acid, the good kind

Transient effects from probiotics are not to worry, if they don't get better, it's time to look for a different product.

Gut health is essential to remove a constant source of inflammation.

Safest probiotics (safest to less safe):
* Lactobacillus GG (multiple benefits, including reduction of inflammation and healing aleaky gut)
* S. Boulardii (better form seems to be the Florastor brand and not Jarrows)

Leaky gut and dysbiosis is perpetuated if you don't change your diet, remove grains and introduce certain supplements.

Diet alone might be the cure for many, but it can take a LOT of time.

If you have problems, popping a probiotic pill might not resolve the problem. Remove grains from diet, use safe starches, use antimicrobials and safe probiotics (at the beginning). Some fiber is good, avoid excess fiber and from supplements.

Why bacteria might grow in exccess?

Insuficient bile acid, stomach acid, gut motility problems, etc. Totally overlooked topics.

A very good read:

http://www.dherbs.com/articles/intestinal-colon-health-478.html

Good to see you back littlefighter, wondered where you had gone.

Ordered some LGG about a week ago, looking forward to using it.

You mention "safe starches" what are these? Potatoes?

LittleFighter what is a good brand of probiotic for Lactobacillus GG?

theseeker - As far a I'm aware, culturelle is very good if not the best.

http://www.iherb.com/Culturelle-Culturelle-Probiotic-30-Veggie-Caps/7797?at=0

Avoid excess fiber? What is the reason behind this?

GreenPower wrote:Avoid excess fiber? What is the reason behind this?

Excessive fiber leads to excess fermentation, and that is problematic for people with dysbiosis.

Some types of fiber from food is actually healthy, mantains a healthy bowel flora. However throwing fiber in won't cure dysbiosis.

That's a good article Nid.

"Safe starches" as far as I know, is a term coined in the Paleo community to refer to healthy starches allowed in paleo diets.

These starches provide energy, with little or no fructose. After all, very low carb or zero carb is probably not healthy for anyone.

Rice, Taro, Potatoes (sweet is prefered), Yams, tubers, etc are examples of them.

I recommend to get the Perfect Health Diet book by Paul Jaminet, excellent in explaining things in details, fully backed by research.

Culturelle is the best brand for LGG, IMHO.

BTW fellows, try to take probiotics on an empty stomach... I believe this is the best option.

Definitely on an empty stomach re: probiotics. Ya, that Master Herbalist Djetuy is an incredibly knowledgeable fella! Culturelle didn't seem to have the impact on my digestive tract that Dr. O'hirras did in my past, but I could be wrong. My girlfriend's work has this probiotic that has some 100 billion organisms in it; very effecdtive, whereas culturelle is 1/10th of that.

LittleFighter wrote:

GreenPower wrote:Avoid excess fiber? What is the reason behind this?

Excessive fiber leads to excess fermentation, and that is problematic for people with dysbiosis.

Some types of fiber from food is actually healthy, mantains a healthy bowel flora. However throwing fiber in won't cure dysbiosis.

Recently I've experimented with Psyillium Husks and would have to agree that it aggravates or exacerbates gut issues, a week after I ceased ingestion of it I was still having really bad gas release and bloating, I caution anybody on fiber.

Personally, Jarrows Probiotics (Jarro-Dophilus EPS) gave me a lot of bloating and horrible smelly tools.
I have stopped them after having isolated the problem.

I didn't think probiotics, who are supposed to help with bloating, could actually cause all this mess in my body

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=344

act

LittleFighter wrote:

GreenPower wrote:Avoid excess fiber? What is the reason behind this?

Excessive fiber leads to excess fermentation, and that is problematic for people with dysbiosis.

Some types of fiber from food is actually healthy, mantains a healthy bowel flora. However throwing fiber in won't cure dysbiosis.

Recently I've experimented with Psyillium Husks and would have to agree that it aggravates or exacerbates gut issues, a week after I ceased ingestion of it I was still having really bad gas release and bloating, I caution anybody on fiber.

However I do believe a combo of Psyllum and Bentonite and other herbs can be very very helpful for detoxification, when dealing with parasites, bacteria, yeast, etc... for short-mid term use. Combine it with antibiotic herbs and you have an amazing treatment because these fiber absorbs endotoxins and other undesirable garbage that cause reactions.

Also the combination of psyllum with bentonite and herbs does reduce or completly eliminate the fermentation effect, in my experience. I know a very good fiber blend with these ingredients I used a long time ago and cleared my acne and dandruff... I know understand it was due to improved detoxification of endotoxins, undesirable bacteria and yeasts and less of these escaping into the blood creating infections, inflammation and excessive sebum output.

The blend I used is Everyday Fiber System from Rainbow Light... GOOD stuff. If one is using antifungals or other things, this blend can be used to reduce or eliminate die-off.

I'm looking into posting a "unified" protocol to eliminate dysbiosis, for people with problems in this area. No need to use lots of products, with little effect.

Hey guys,

What would you make of the fact that when I don't take probiotics, my stools are much worse than when I do? Probiotics, specifically the Jarro-Dophilus EPS, fix my stools from being loose and really smelly to what is considered normal in color and formation. Without taking them, I almost have a garlic/onion smell when I poop which is strange since I would smell that when I didn't even consume them.

LittleFighter wrote:That's a good article Nid.

"Safe starches" as far as I know, is a term coined in the Paleo community to refer to healthy starches allowed in paleo diets.

These starches provide energy, with little or no fructose. After all, very low carb or zero carb is probably not healthy for anyone.

Rice, Taro, Potatoes (sweet is prefered), Yams, tubers, etc are examples of them.

I recommend to get the Perfect Health Diet book by Paul Jaminet, excellent in explaining things in details, fully backed by research.

Culturelle is the best brand for LGG, IMHO.

What do you think of doing a fecal transplant as Paul mentions. Lol pretty disgusting but if it works?

MilBA wrote:http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=344

Lol! Nice link – it's good to see contrary viewpoints. The author made some excellent points. . .

LittleFighter wrote:
Also the combination of psyllum with bentonite and herbs does reduce or completly eliminate the fermentation effect, in my experience. I know a very good fiber blend with these ingredients I used a long time ago and cleared my acne and dandruff... I know understand it was due to improved detoxification of endotoxins, undesirable bacteria and yeasts and less of these escaping into the blood creating infections, inflammation and excessive sebum output.

The blend I used is Everyday Fiber System from Rainbow Light... GOOD stuff. If one is using antifungals or other things, this blend can be used to reduce or eliminate die-off.

I'm looking into posting a "unified" protocol to eliminate dysbiosis, for people with problems in this area. No need to use lots of products, with little effect.

I'm 3 or 4 weeks in the P&B shakes and, my bowel movements are back stronger than ever.

I agree the bloating does happen but mine has stabilized back to normal. If you are having lots of trouble with psyllium, introduce flax seeds (a lot). I'm not familiar with insoluble and soluble fiber so you might have to do some research on that, but IMO flax seeds help me a lot.

Also start eating pineapple too or even start taking some of the papain you user bought (because of pragues famous post on his regrowth) since your colon needs enzymes to help with digestion and the cleaning up.


LittleFighter,

I recently started taking the inneov nestle l'oreal probiotics that you recommended a while back. Can you comment on your results with those? I'm on my fourth pill so I can't comment yet.

LittleFighter wrote:


The blend I used is Everyday Fiber System from Rainbow Light.

LittleFighter, Do you take the powder kind or the capsule?

Littlefighter - I got my culturelle today, on the back it says do not add to warm or hot foods or beverages. I'm hoping to make yogurt out of it to make it last longer, but the milks a little warm when you add the probiotic? What do I do? Make a milk a little cooler?

Littlefighter

Great thread, with lots of good suggestions. Much encouragement on posting a protocol on getting rid of gut dysbiosis. Thanks and good to see you back!

tooyoung wrote:Littlefighter - I got my culturelle today, on the back it says do not add to warm or hot foods or beverages. I'm hoping to make yogurt out of it to make it last longer, but the milks a little warm when you add the probiotic? What do I do? Make a milk a little cooler?

tooyoung - Hope you don't mind me answering. I managed to successfully make yoghurt using Culturelle capsules. I used (initially) ten capsules with 500ml of milk. I used to make yoghurt regularly with other cultures, but stopped when trying a dairy free (apart from butter) diet. My procedure involves heating the milk (full fat, pasteurised, non homogenised) to 80°C and then allowing it to cool to about 45°C. At this point I add a small amount of the milk to the powder from the capsules and mix gently to ensure that the culture is evenly distributed. Then I incubate it (using a standard yoghurt maker) for a minimum of eight hours. The milk 'sets' fine, so I assume that the LGG culture is thriving. Then I just reserve a small quantity of the batch for next time. It's early days with this, but it always turns out fine. Sterilise any components you use with boiling water first, but allow them to cool down first before use with the LGG culture.

I have tried using unpasteurised milk for yoghurt making in the past at low temps, but heating is necessary to get any positive results so you may as well use pasteurised (not UHT though).

In terms of health, it's too early to tell, but my gut seems more settled now. It's also nice to have dairy again, although I'm nervous about introducing too many (potential) problem foods back into my diet - especially gluten, fruit, sugars etc. I think that I am battling some kind of yeast overgrowth since I've had (over a long period of time) suggestive symptoms - not just hair loss. I figured that including LGG would help me restore balance. So far so good.

MAO

Mao, thanks for the post, it's been a great help. Which brand of yogurt maker do you use?

tooyoung wrote:Mao, thanks for the post, it's been a great help. Which brand of yogurt maker do you use?

I'm using one made by Lakeland.

http://www.lakeland.co.uk/electric-yoghurt-maker/F/keyword/yoghurt/product/3440_3441

I tried using my oven on the lowest setting, but the temperature was not very well regulated. This simple yoghurt maker is basic, but works very well.

MAO