Is there a chance the liver may be the cause of MPB in MOST people?

Because... this is becoming very interesting to me. Now, the exceptions may be teens losing hair, steroid users, chronic inflammation, etc, but I am very much swayed towards this theory that it is a toxic, clogged, fatty and/or simply sluggish liver that is the driving force behind MPB in most people certainly over say 21 or 22.

The Evidence -

1) What seems to result in hair loss according to observational evidence? Alcohol, stress, diabetes, fatty and carby and sugary foods, etc. And what do these ALL strain? The liver! I'm sure you can think of tons more.

2) Justin, a previous poster, solved his hair loss by focusing on liver health as well as overall health.

3) My MPB immediately followed digestive issues and an egg (and some other foods) intolerance (commonly associated with liver and gallbladder problems).

4) The liver removes hormones and toxins from our bodies including free testosterone and DHT. If it starts to underperform, levels of these hormones rise.

(cont in post 2 as I'm on my phone!)

Basically, the more I look around, the more this theory just makes SENSE. It joins a hell of a lot of dots for me. It doesn't fit in with some study I saw that said there was no change in DHT with aging, but hell some studies say some totally wacky things lol, sometimes you need to go with your own logic and experience!

Basically, I'm going to try the Oxy-powder colon cleanse followed by probably the standard liver cleanse a few times and perhaps a parasite cleanse, and see if I lose my egg intolerance or my hair loss! I really do have high hopes for this!

For the record, I got the theory from a friend (Justin) who also in turn got it from a friend, but I was starting to reach the same conclusion myself... slowly!

Take care all anyway and I look forward to hearing your views!

Hoppi! ^_^

Hoppi, I agree with you!

I am also about to use the Oxy-powder colon cleanse in conjunction to parasite cleanse later to follow with a liver cleanse.

From my understanding would look into metals here, definitely a good place to start.

Hoppi! This is incredibly odd, I was going to post this exact same topic tonight! O.o

I have to 100% agree with you. Over the past few years I've ingested a TON of refined sugar and more pasta and cereal than I'm willing to admit. Since the liver processes all this stuff, it only makes sense it would get overloaded. It wasn't built to withstand the amount of carbs and sugar etc that we feed it. I think it's essential to cleanse it if you're over 21, and have had a "refined" diet most of your life.

This compliments my observations of alcoholics... most of them have MPB as I've seen, and the liver processes that equally as sugars and refined toxins. I think in this manner it's one in the same as far as origin.

Also just from process of elimination (no pun intended... ok kind of...), I've regulated thyroid function, detoxed some metals, cleaned the scalp, no family history of loss, and still not much improvement. Since I've given up the massive intake of sugars and refined carbs (still some, maybe 25% of the old days), my recession as practically stopped, but my liver is probably still loaded and inefficient.

That being said, I think it's time to try R-ALA and Ecklonia Cava. If our predictions are right, these should help tremendously!


On a side note: This fits very well with Chinese medicine. As we know, they believe it stems from the liver. There's just too many positive assertions not to tie the state of the liver into this!

@teacup and Smurfy - great minds eh? ^^ It does seem almost too simple/good to be true but... having said that I think the reason was always GOING to be simple, because this idea of some sudden epigenetic change when someone hits age X (when MPB starts) just seemed so silly!

I know there are other possibilities like people say cholesterol stores DHT and stuff but... I dunno, I would be very happy to run with this as a theory for over 22s until someone's case provides an exception! Oh, allergies such as celiac also seem to trigger MPB but that may well be through liver upset as well, or chronic inflammation.

Peace!

Hoppipola - Would you be willing to list all the things that you have thought were responsible and no longer do - and those that you think do - along with the Liver I guess?

I'm not really sure how your thoughts have changed...

TCM (Chinese medicine) thinks hair problems are related to deficient Chi in kidneys, but Hoppi has a point in that a healthy, functioning liver can only help.

-9r5-

gbp2000 wrote:Hoppipola - Would you be willing to list all the things that you have thought were responsible and no longer do - and those that you think do - along with the Liver I guess?

I'm not really sure how your thoughts have changed...

Sorry man, I know I can be confusing, it's only because I learn and read and think about this a LOT, and so I keep coming to new conclusions and thinking of new things, and talking with people more and different people.

As I have stated above, this is my current view. That the things that harm hair as far as I know are anything that increases androgenic activity in the body (e.g. steroids and IMO green tea), inflammation (e.g. probably Rosacea), a toxic liver (leading to inadequate removal of DHT/free T and possibly low SHBG levels), naturally high testosterone production, a particularly high genetic follicular sensitivity to androgens, etc etc. But in people who experience MPB out of the blue within adult years, maybe it's just the liver?

I erm.. I'm not sure if there are many things that I believed once and I don't now in regards to outward causes (stress/cortisol, insulin/diabetes, etc) except now I blame overworking of the liver whereas before I blamed estradiol upregulating androgen receptors. There's a lot to learn, but I have high hopes for this as a theory

As I say, I think it's worked for someone already!

9r5 - It's true TCM does focus on the kidneys, but it doesn't ignore the liver either. Seeing as both act as filters, neither can really be disregarded. As liver health affects eyesight according to them, how many balding people do you see with glasses? I've seen so many!

Hoppi - This goes well with both our thinking- estradiol (or really excess of any) could be behind it... if the liver can't normalize hormones, it only makes sense they would circulate and attack us. I can't see any regimen working if the liver isn't in great shape, and nothing seems to be helping!

I used to be a huge soda drinker, and a little research revealed just how much it decimates your liver, among other organs, sheesh! No doubt there's damage done, and not long after I realized my hair just wasn't the same. I have to blame modified fructose for some of these problems.

So as you were saying, it just randomly "pops up" in people at any age, which is totally true. Those people may have had a lifestyle change that they are unaware of or dismiss. When I moved to college for 4 years, looking back, that's when I did my damage. I thought to myself "oh my dad had the same thing, it's just my turn".... then why after moving back home and cleaning up my diet did things suddenly get better? High-sugar/soda/carb/some soy, to high meat/potatoes/water, where things aren't getting better, they're not getting worse. Point is, the most affected organ IMO is the liver, though I'm sure insulin didn't help either (if you can relate to any of this).

IMO again, as to why kids/women don't manifest the problems... kids have fresh organs and a good supply of minerals from the mother. It takes time to damage the organs, but could be why it's happening earlier and earlier in some kids. Women, good question most I know tend to eat/drink in moderation and generally try to live healthier lifestyles (aka yogurt, sunbathing, garden-fresh salads, you get the point), still I don't know if it's a strong enough argument.

Hoppi. I completely agree with your theory. My hair loss is always aggravated by over indulgence in alcohol. If I have a night on the town, I shed like a rabbit for two – three weeks. If I abstain, things normalize and new growth appears.

We should also remember to maintain our kidneys, adrenals, thyroid and pancreas. I believe that healing the liver alone will not produce the result we are all looking for. But, it’s a great place to start.

I beliiieeeve the reason women don't have the same problem is because I heard they were less susceptible genetically (like it's on the Y chromosome or something like that, and of course you could probably quadruple the amount of androgens in a woman and I doubt they would match those in a healthy male. Genetically and hormonally I just think they are in a better position hair-wise!

You gotta be right. Their systems are just mapped totally differently. Diffuse loss probably occurs in the same manner I bet, but recession and vertex have to be more hormone/receptor related. I can't see any other way

But back on topic, I'm positive liver and pancreas both work together somehow, both need to be dealth with! They both process sugars!

Smurfy wrote:You gotta be right. Their systems are just mapped totally differently. Diffuse loss probably occurs in the same manner I bet, but recession and vertex have to be more hormone/receptor related. I can't see any other way

But back on topic, I'm positive liver and pancreas both work together somehow, both need to be dealth with! They both process sugars!

lol is this really about sugars though? I thought it was about capacity to filter out DHT and free T and capacity to release SHBG?

Indirectly! I think too many sugars and toxins (alcohol, metals) damage the liver over time, which reduces its ability to handle the hormones you speak of, so yes I'm still agreeing with you

Cool man

And look!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04scj2KyYDg ^^

Additionally, I've decided that if this IS right, I am going to go and use it to cure people!! lol

I really wanna heal Brian Molko and Jon Davis lol

I wonder if they would listen to me ._.

Hey not bad, that link is actually semi-related probably! Anything that can unclog your liver has gotta help ^^

Smurfy wrote:Hey not bad, that link is actually semi-related probably! Anything that can unclog your liver has gotta help ^^

Well, thing is it might not apply to everyone with liver-focused MPB, as I'm sure clogged bile isn't the only cause of an increase in liver toxicity (just it explains everything in my case quite well). However it illustrates the underlying concepts quite well and explains why this bile problem (stones or sludge) leads to a sudden increase of toxicity (which would explain my own sudden diffuse thinning).

Hopefully the liver really is this pivotal, as it's a relatively easy thing to fix

Hoppipolla wrote:

Well, thing is it might not apply to everyone with liver-focused MPB, as I'm sure clogged bile isn't the only cause of an increase in liver toxicity (just it explains everything in my case quite well). However it illustrates the underlying concepts quite well and explains why this bile problem (stones or sludge) leads to a sudden increase of toxicity (which would explain my own sudden diffuse thinning).

Hopefully the liver really is this pivotal, as it's a relatively easy thing to fix

Seeing as it's a hormonal regulator, having a sort of "sludge" build-up in there can definitely be the start of a giant chain reaction. De-regulate one critical hormone, de-regulate them all... I don't have diffuse thinning, just marked recession, yet I still look towards the liver only cause I'm narrowing it down. Wonder if it's possible a liver issue can manifest as different forms of loss? hmm.

Hoppipolla wrote:sudden diffuse thinning

I'm curious to how it would be sudden. I would think damage over time would produce a steady inclination of thinning in your case, unless you just hit a certain threshold that caused a big shed? Interesting to look at the mechanisms though.

Oh and yes... I bet it's very easy to clean up a liver!

Smurfy wrote:

Hoppipolla wrote:sudden diffuse thinning

I'm curious to how it would be sudden. I would think damage over time would produce a steady inclination of thinning in your case, unless you just hit a certain threshold that caused a big shed? Interesting to look at the mechanisms though.

My current view is that I've developed a mild-ish case of gallstones and/or biliary sludge, causing a sudden increase in liver toxins, my allergy (or often allergies) and malabsorption. For others I believe the reasons may be different, such as alcohol, diabetes, stress, toxic build-up, many things really

Additionally, I have been learning about lots of things which are good to heal the liver, I'll post a list here to share the knowledge and keep my head in order too!!

(I've put a ~ if I consider them to probably be LESS important than the others, particularly good ones I've given a >> )

>> Milk Thistle (contains Silymarin to detox the liver and I believe help prevent toxic build-up)
>> Beetroot - thins the bile.
>> Bitter foods - stimulate bile release
Artichoke (I forget why... lol)
>> Apples and apple juice - contains pectin which makes gallstones go all squishy lol
>> Apple cider vinegar - apparently helps stones dissolve
>> Lemon and olive oil and water (taken together in a drink)
Dandelion - general detox
>> Exercise - blood flow primarily, but just gets everything moving
Watermelon and walnuts - increases glutathione and aids in detox
Garlic - the allicin in it... helps... somehow... ^^
>> Onions and radishes - the sulphur apparently helps significantly with liver detox
Magnesium ... somehow...
Vitamin C
Lecithin (in fermented soy) - aids gallstones to break up
Anti-oxidants
~ Cruciferous vegetables
~ Oats
Turmeric
~ Kidney beans
>> WATER!
~ Cucumber
Flax seed oil (prevents gallstones from building up and helps them dissolve, apparently!)

and lastly for now you can also get liver detox teas that contain many things like milk thistle, artichoke, etc. I am drinking one atm from Dr Stuart's!

Since even starting the bitter foods I have had a significant increase in gas rofl, and burping as well lol, which I take as a good sign as it means increased digestion (bitter foods simply stimulate bile release).

Anywho, take care all and I'll post more if I think of it lol ^^

Hoppiiiii!

EDIT -- Ah, it seems you need like "real" apple juice, not pasteurized or anything like that. That's why they ideally say you should make it yourself. When the apple juice is pasteurized and stuff I think they take away the pectin, which is what we want for gallstones and liver health. Damn.. heh

Better get hunting down a source of real apple juice!!

Hi Hip!

Thanks for the reply! Cleared a lot up!

Did Justin post here or on another site?

How can you tell if your liver is improving?