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The double edged sword - Aging or a healthy brain
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The double edged sword - Aging or a healthy brain
DHT induces Dkk-1, Dkk-1 inhibits wnt signalling. Inhibitors of DHT remove the inhibition on wnt signalling. Wnt signalling results in aging.
Activation of wnt signalling inhibits brown adipogenesis of cultured cells
Higher levels of wnt signalling prevent hippocampal apoptosis of neurons. Low levels of wnt signalling are seen as a pre-cursor to Alzheimers.
Lithium, a treatment for bipolar, increases wnt signalling and is thus neuroprotective. I have a sister who takes Lithium, she is not aging well.
I took Spironolactone for 3 years and my face has aged at least ten years. Mostly due to loss of fat in my face I think. Also, I have collagen breakdown which is probably from minoxidil.
I have great family genetics in terms of aging...
I do wonder what amount of damage wnt has done throughout my body, my face is the only part i can see of course.
A note of caution about large supplementation with Vitamin D:
Klotho-deficient mice show increased production of vitamin D, and altered mineral-ion homeostasis is suggested to be a cause of premature aging–like phenotypes, because the lowering of vitamin D activity by dietary restriction reverses the premature aging–like phenotypes and prolongs survival in these mutants. These results suggest that aging–like phenotypes were due to klotho-associated vitamin D metabolic abnormalities(hypervitaminosis)
How depressing it all is....
Activation of wnt signalling inhibits brown adipogenesis of cultured cells
Higher levels of wnt signalling prevent hippocampal apoptosis of neurons. Low levels of wnt signalling are seen as a pre-cursor to Alzheimers.
Lithium, a treatment for bipolar, increases wnt signalling and is thus neuroprotective. I have a sister who takes Lithium, she is not aging well.
I took Spironolactone for 3 years and my face has aged at least ten years. Mostly due to loss of fat in my face I think. Also, I have collagen breakdown which is probably from minoxidil.
I have great family genetics in terms of aging...
I do wonder what amount of damage wnt has done throughout my body, my face is the only part i can see of course.
A note of caution about large supplementation with Vitamin D:
Klotho-deficient mice show increased production of vitamin D, and altered mineral-ion homeostasis is suggested to be a cause of premature aging–like phenotypes, because the lowering of vitamin D activity by dietary restriction reverses the premature aging–like phenotypes and prolongs survival in these mutants. These results suggest that aging–like phenotypes were due to klotho-associated vitamin D metabolic abnormalities(hypervitaminosis)
How depressing it all is....
Hoople- Posts : 44
Join date : 2010-09-24
Re: The double edged sword - Aging or a healthy brain
Hoople,
you were taking *topical* spironolactone? cream or solution? what %?
thanks!
you were taking *topical* spironolactone? cream or solution? what %?
thanks!
magic_gro- Posts : 689
Join date : 2010-03-11
Re: The double edged sword - Aging or a healthy brain
200mg internal spiro for two years, then 75mg for a year.
I think it may be due to the anti-mineralocorticoid action which left my face SEVERELY dehydrated, hence resulting in wrinkles (some formed overnight), loss of elasticity, and general aging.
We have mineralocorticoid receptors in our face, aldosterone binds to the receptors and controls the action of the sodium pumps. Spiro blocks this receptor leading to excretion of sodium out of the cell (it is a diuretic). Now, experts seem unsure as to whether humans have active NA/, K// pumps in our facial cells (theres barely any research on it). From my experience, they ARE active. Thus the sodium is drawn out of the cell via the blocking action of spironolactone on the aldosterone receptor. I also wonder if it caused the death of these cells, I haven't looked into that though.
A sign of dehydration is muscle spasms. I had muscle spasms throughout my entire face...resulting in the overnight formation of three new wrinkles (I tell no lie).
It all falls into place with this explanation - the premature aging, the wrinkles, the loss of elasticity.
The loss of facial fat...well that may be due to DHT inhibiting brown fat adipogenesis, and as we know, facial fat is a sign of youthfulness.
I think I have it sussed.
The thing I don't understand is.....why me? Why doesn't this happen to the MILLIONS of people who take spironolactone.
I think it may be due to the anti-mineralocorticoid action which left my face SEVERELY dehydrated, hence resulting in wrinkles (some formed overnight), loss of elasticity, and general aging.
We have mineralocorticoid receptors in our face, aldosterone binds to the receptors and controls the action of the sodium pumps. Spiro blocks this receptor leading to excretion of sodium out of the cell (it is a diuretic). Now, experts seem unsure as to whether humans have active NA/, K// pumps in our facial cells (theres barely any research on it). From my experience, they ARE active. Thus the sodium is drawn out of the cell via the blocking action of spironolactone on the aldosterone receptor. I also wonder if it caused the death of these cells, I haven't looked into that though.
A sign of dehydration is muscle spasms. I had muscle spasms throughout my entire face...resulting in the overnight formation of three new wrinkles (I tell no lie).
It all falls into place with this explanation - the premature aging, the wrinkles, the loss of elasticity.
The loss of facial fat...well that may be due to DHT inhibiting brown fat adipogenesis, and as we know, facial fat is a sign of youthfulness.
I think I have it sussed.
The thing I don't understand is.....why me? Why doesn't this happen to the MILLIONS of people who take spironolactone.
Hoople- Posts : 44
Join date : 2010-09-24
Re: The double edged sword - Aging or a healthy brain
OMG's actually developing a Laser Mask to increase collagen, elasticity, bloodflow, and reduce wrinkles. Can't wait for this! Meanwhile, I'd use Hylauronic Acid (spelling?) and Ecklonia Cava/Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid/Krill Oil to combat the wrinkles and restore moisture.
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nidhogge- Posts : 2142
Join date : 2008-07-10
Re: The double edged sword - Aging or a healthy brain
Hoople - Probably a very frustrating thing about forums is that many readers make a mistake of equating that "X=Y" or "this causes that"
Nothing is ever that simple. Moreover, most things are about quality, dose, source, and environmental influence.
Prescription lithium in the form of lithium carbonate, requires a very high dose, which is thyroid suppressive.
On the other hand, low-dose Orotate or Aspartate lithium is not.
Vitamin D in humans is associated with a reduction of mortality from all causes.
Nothing is ever that simple. Moreover, most things are about quality, dose, source, and environmental influence.
Prescription lithium in the form of lithium carbonate, requires a very high dose, which is thyroid suppressive.
On the other hand, low-dose Orotate or Aspartate lithium is not.
Vitamin D in humans is associated with a reduction of mortality from all causes.
_________________
My regimen
http://www.immortalhair.org/mpb-regimen
Now available for consultation (hair and/or health)
http://www.immortalhair.org/health-consultation
Re: The double edged sword - Aging or a healthy brain
From my experience, Inhibiting DHT for several years has made me younger looking. Seeing as you are a female, you should have far less DHT so I doubt there would be much impact on wnt signaling. Also, about the Spironolactone, you're not the only one. If you check out the HerAlopecia forums, there are several posters that claim Spiro and or minox have ruined their skin.
Anyway if you want to combat wrinkles, I think Pueraria Mirifica would be your best bet. It should also stop/reverse your hair loss and balance your hormones out rather well. Dr. Sandy Schwartz has a PM topical that is designed to eliminate wrinkles that looks rather promising. Combine that with copper peptides and you will probably undo whatever damage the spiro did. Most things aren't permanent.
Anyway if you want to combat wrinkles, I think Pueraria Mirifica would be your best bet. It should also stop/reverse your hair loss and balance your hormones out rather well. Dr. Sandy Schwartz has a PM topical that is designed to eliminate wrinkles that looks rather promising. Combine that with copper peptides and you will probably undo whatever damage the spiro did. Most things aren't permanent.
baller234- Posts : 433
Join date : 2010-02-12
Age : 35
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