Testosterone Booster

I'll bite, here is the abstract misterE:

Mean serum insulin-like growth factor-I was 9% lower in 233 vegan men than in 226 meat-eaters and 237 vegetarians (P = 0.002). Vegans had higher testosterone levels than vegetarians and meat-eaters, but this was offset by higher sex hormone binding globulin, and there were no differences between diet groups in free testosterone, androstanediol glucuronide or luteinizing hormone.

Mean serum insulin-like growth factor-I was 9% lower in 233 vegan men than in 226 meat-eaters and 237 vegetarians (P = 0.002).

Hmmm... "Meat eaters"? They avoided grains, veggie oils, and sugar right?

Vegans had higher testosterone levels than vegetarians and meat-eaters, but this was offset by higher sex hormone binding globulin, and there were no differences between diet groups in free testosterone, androstanediol glucuronide or luteinizing hormone.

Consumers of the Standard American Diet or "Meat Eaters," as they're called here, had an equal amount of testosterone due to the the vegan groups increased amount of SHBG that offset their high T levels.

So in the end, both groups T levels were the same.

What were you trying to prove here misterE?

If SHBG was too low, this is a good thing. If it's too high, excess SHBG can disturb the delicate balance between estrogen and testosterone.

And then there's this:

Low-fat high-fiber diet decreased serum and urine androgens in men.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15741266

Metabolic clearance rates of T were not changed, and production rates for T showed a downward trend while on low-fat diet modulation. We conclude that reduction in dietary fat intake (and increase in fiber) results in 12% consistent lowering of circulating androgen levels without changing the clearance.

I was a sex-less freak too when I was raw vegan. But things have changed since keeping my morals away from my mouth.

Read the entire study, not just the abstract. The reason why vegans have 13% higher testosterone levels compared to meat-eaters is because of the SHBG. In other words testosterone was 13% higher because it was bound to SHBG.

Read the entire study here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2374537/pdf/83-6691152a.pdf

"Vegan men had on average 9% lower IGF-I levels than meat-eaters"

"Vegans had 13% higher T concentrationthan meat-eaters"

"SHBG levels in vegans were 16% higher than in meat-eaters"

"Since an increase in SHBG generally causes an increase in total T, we examined differences in mean T concentration after additionally adjusting for SHBG. This adjustment substantially reduced the difference in T between the three diet groups"

Diets rich in fat and cholesterol increases serum-(free)-testosterone but not total-testosterone. In order to increase total-testosterone, one must increase SHBG. Once again, free-testosterone is what converts into estrogen and DHT. Balding men need an increase in total-testosterone (SHBG-bound-testosterone) not free-testosterone. Insulin resistance and high levels of free-IGF-1 lowers SHBG, which promotes the conversion of testosterone into estrogen and DHT.

dannyroddy wrote:
Low-fat high-fiber diet decreased serum and urine androgens in men.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15741266

Metabolic clearance rates of T were not changed, and production rates for T showed a downward trend while on low-fat diet modulation. We conclude that reduction in dietary fat intake (and increase in fiber) results in 12% consistent lowering of circulating androgen levels without changing the clearance.

This proves my point even further. The low-fat/high-fiber diet lowers free-testosterone by increasing SHBG, thus increasing your total amount of testosterone that is unable to convert.

SHBG bound testosterone is useless for building muscle, free test is what is needed. Therefore eating vegan or whatever will not work for this situation

M77 - I am still waiting for my supps, I have also heard mixed reviews for both tribulus and tongkat so therefore I will have to try them myself and judge accordingly.

Lucky13 wrote:SHBG bound testosterone is useless for building muscle, free test is what is needed.

Why do you say that? SHBG has a receptor of its own.

Free testosterone is the more biologically active form and is able to diffuse into the tissues aka muscle.

Lucky13 wrote:Free testosterone is the more biologically active form and is able to diffuse into the tissues aka muscle.

Actually, from what I have researched, and contrary to what many body-builders believe, free-testosterone is nothing more than a prohormone (for estrogens or DHT). SHBG (on the other hand) binds testosterone to the SHBG-receptor (SHBGR), preventing its conversion (into estrogen or DHT) and metabolic-clearance-rate (excretion) from the body.

Well looking from a steroid point of view, there is anavar and wynstrol which both significantly decrease SHBG and increase free testosterone to provide gains. Other synthetic steroids increase free testosterone to provide their gains but have little to no effect on SHBG. These steroids clearly work, just look at any gorilla at the gym. If SHBG was the key to building muscle, everyone at the gym would eat vegan and drink copious amounts of green tea. Lower SHBG and higher free testosterone increases mass and strength. Despite what you have read SHBG is not good from a body building point of view.

Lucky13 wrote:Well looking from a steroid point of view, there is anavar and wynstrol which both significantly decrease SHBG and increase free testosterone to provide gains. Other synthetic steroids increase free testosterone to provide their gains but have little to no effect on SHBG. These steroids clearly work, just look at any gorilla at the gym. If SHBG was the key to building muscle, everyone at the gym would eat vegan and drink copious amounts of green tea. Lower SHBG and higher free testosterone increases mass and strength. Despite what you have read SHBG is not good from a body building point of view.

I'm not saying SHBG is the key to gains, just high total-testosterone. Eating large amounts of protein (and fat) is shown to lower the total-amount of testosterone while increasing free-IGF-1, and it is the increase in free-IGF-1 that causes such huge gains. Free-IGF-1 is much much more anabolic than testosterone (in fact it’s the most anabolic hormone in the body), so even thou these body-builders have a low total-testosterone, they are still able to build muscle with their higher levels of free-IGF-1, however there is serious drawbacks from increasing free-IGF-1 especially when baldness, cancer and overall aging is concerned.

how come some pro bodybuilders have such good hair then taking in all that whey should really obliterate there hair take jay cutler as a more well known bodybuilder for example.

Balthier wrote:how come some pro bodybuilders have such good hair then taking in all that whey should really obliterate there hair take jay cutler as a more well known bodybuilder for example.

Probably because they "work it off". Exercise drastically increases insulin-sensitivity and IGFBP's. Plus there are always exceptions; perhaps this Jay Cutler doesn't have a genetic predisposition for MPB. Many bodybuilders do in fact go bald.

yeah I know a lot go bald, but some have really thick hair well into old age he was just one example and I'm sure they take unhealthy drugs on purpose just to get bigger just a rant, but I think there's a lot more than just IGF-1 at play.