Confusing viewpoints and false Consensus CS,JDP, Prague, MisterE? Have any of them cured hairloss?

Ok,

I've resisted posting this for a while, but its becoming pretty clear that this forum is becoming splintered.

MisterE has made some claims regarding reduced sebum reduction, but I haven't (apologies if I missed it) ever seen a post which claims significant regrowth. Compound that with an approach that is, in many ways, very unlike CSs approach and its hard to see what to gain from MisterE's rather ideological differences?

This isn't a personal attack on MrE - I've no idea what he has achieved - rather I can't help but notice how their are increasingly divergent viewpoints - which on most forums would be fine, but the Immortal Hair forum doesn't seem to sit well, and this seems to confuses a lot of newer members.

Prague, whose approach, I personally follow and agree with, has, over the years posted that he grew back to a norwood 1 with:

Maca and Progesterone Cream

I'm assuming he then lost hair again and used:

Papaya and Hylauranic acid

Which worked great.

Now he has gone on rather a mollecular route. Personally, I'm having a little success too, but nothing that will make any difference.

Pragues views are incompatible with MrE's and divergent from CSs. Whilst promising photos, none have appeared, and we have little understanding of Pragues progress through his three major regimens. How much growth is due to his new regimem - how much is growing because of decalcification from Papaya?

JDP - the guy knows an awful lot but reveals next to nothing about how his hair has progressed. There are far too many claims of I stopped my hairloss from people - and if that is what Rife does, then it is merely an alternative to IH6 not a major step forward for hair, although it maybe for health.

Instead (and I'm sorry to say this JDP) - we get a lot of very technical detail and theory, but with very selective question answering. I've noticed newbie questions on actual results and hair growth are often ignored, conflicting and sidestepped. Perhaps not on purpose, but both Prague and JDP seem to practise talking in riddles.

Details seem to be left out and end results are often alluded to and not stated. Of course they have no reason to state such details, but what we seem to be getting from two very intelligent people is a high level of noise that appears as progress.

I've yet to read (with their current regimens) from either Prague or JDP something which states - since using this device/ process/methodology, I have noticed the following results.

We hear lots about precursors to supposed regrowth, but little in the way of regrowth.

Wrongly or rightly, this leads new members to assume (from inference by Prague and JDP) that great progress has been made, without hard facts.

Added to this is a lack of healthy debate - CS, JDP and Prague have increasingly divergent viewpoints but do not seem to voice areas of contention or disagreement - instead simply posting what initally look like agreements, but on close inspection aren't. Lip service is paid to each others theory, without real agreement - and often a tacit nod towards:

calcification
the thyroid
metals
pathogens

I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of reply that claims amazing consuse or 'we are all on the same path' - but without clear progress statements, which have only ever been provided by CS, other intelligent forum members such as CS, JDP provide more confusion to newer members than help.

In short, I'm not sure

that JDP agrees with Pragues increasingly esoteric approach
That prague has any faith in a Rife
That the Rife has achieved significant results in JDPs hair, apart from magnesium and lasers
That Pragues previous regimens are more or less effective than his current one
That CS agrees with either Prague or JDP

As I said, I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of half hearted lip service and consensus building here, but the fact is that the intial progress made here over the first year or so is dwindling into camps based on ideology and expected results.

These views are becoming incompatible. If there has been genuine progress then this needs to be stated clearly (as do setbacks) and a genuine attempt with at least an attempt to follow the scientific process to find common ground.

Paying lip service and avoiding making value judgements is doing nothing but harming the contributional value of CS, JDP and Prague as well as increasing the noise ratio on the forum.

This has resulted in:

confused new members
a loss of forward momentum

Perhaps this post is too long, but it needed to be said. For anyone that doubts what I say, look back over posts from JDP and Prague, and imagine a new person trying to form some impression of what to do, or how these methods fit in with each other and IH6.

Then look for statements of hair progress and setbacks that are clearly relate to treatments. They are lacking.

Instead we have allusions to benefits from oliogoic (sp) methods, magnesium, Rife and Orthomolecular, with few of them having clear direction.

For the record, I'm for this forum and have had some regrowth with Pragues methods - this is not the point though - I thoroughly appreciate posts from CS, Prague and JDP - but the style of posting and lack of clear content is not helpful in a public forum and more suited to private messaging. I realise contributions are given voluntarily, but what is the point of them if they constantly muddy the waters?

AH! Hahah, this is the post I've been too conservative to write - gbp2000 thank you.

I'm sadly on my way out the door but I have a load of things I wish to write in response regarding info that I've been compiling that links CS, Prague's, and jdp's different mediums of attacking hairloss.

Even possibly MisterE's views, jdp has touched upon bringing that into focus of all of this.

And yes, new members are super confused, but I think there's probably an remedy to that coming from CS soon.

Again, a much needed breeze of criticism.

gbp2000 - Jdp & Prague differ from my approach in that they appear to strive for a more pure approach in terms of food.
Prague & jdp are far more serious about diet than I am and minimize the supplements--which is unthinkable to me.

I have more of the "have your cake and eat it too philosophy" with some serious restrictions, such as no hydrogenated oils, no trans-fats (the same thing, but different forms), nothing fried in oils other than coconut or palm oil), I will saute with butter (but never vegetable oil).

I do violate some rules once in a while--sometimes it's just too convenient to drop by KFC in a weak moment when you're hungry and short on time. And I do consume pizza at least once per week.

For the most part I do an excellent job of avoiding refined grains (except for the pizza) on a regular basis, but this is suited to my metabolic type (I don't believe in a specific diet for everyone). And I have become really good at avoiding sugar. I'll just use Xylitol for tea or coffee and it works great.

I give supplements 100% credit for my hair.

I use supplements with some special diet considerations to mitigate any harm to my hair and it has worked great.

Jdp, Prague and myself all agree on some important and basic concepts, I believe that are fundamentally rooted in success.

We just go about them differently. I leave it to the reader to decide which approach makes the most sense to them.

I don't think Prague or Jdp would be any more happy to follow my approach as I would with their approach.

Myself, jdp and Prague still aim achieve the same thing. De-calcification, heavy metals, thyroid health, iodine, appropriate diet are fundamental with us.

I say, pick what approach you think you could live with.

To compliment jdp's post, the more research I done on my own the more I grasped the fact that if jdp (or prague, or CS for that matter) were to answer all the questions they were asked, they would have to quit their jobs and sit in front of the computer everyday.

The answers are here, on this site, buried amongst the threads that didn't take off. And jdp, I can see how the things you say can be taken as riddles by those who don't just go back and reread the posts until they understand it, you can not be expected to spoon-feed anybody.

I swear jdp had a post there a minute ago.... hahah.

A couple points I should make:

Evolution. You see, there is not just one way to stop hair loss and many many ways to treat. Everyone is looking for the source of the problem.

Not speaking in riddles. I can see how it can sound that way though if one sentence or more from a post is not understood. or if not enough time was not given reading the post.

You wouldn't believe how many PM's one can get on this forum. It can be ridiculous! There was a time when I spent more time with PMs than posting on this forum.

I tend to post information just a couple times and ignore further attempts for requests unless it's needed. If you think that's harsh, my time is just as valuable as anyone elses. Everyone knows how to perform a search as that's all I'll do anyway. You see, I work 7 days a week, 365 days a year and sleep fewer hours than most in order to keep up with the workload. I also have never made a single penny from hair loss nor will I ever. Not to mention, how many times can one repeat themselves.

Can't stress this one enough, there really is no need to simplify messages past a certain point. I try my hardest to but if you simplify too much, then the meaning is lost.

Nothing worse for a poster than to spend 30 minutes creating a post only for post to be drowned out by those who don't know how to perform a google search or by those that spend 30 seconds reading a post. The "throw away your vitamin D3" is a classic example. Someone spends 30 seconds reading why D3 supplement is harmful then a poster attacks the information posted. The problem though is attach has nothing to do with thread... eventually the thread gets drowned out ----> why it was longer than 3 pages. I even had someone telling me I was the one being rude for constantly correcting poster that their post has nothing to do with topic of thread. So again, problems are from those that only spend 30 seconds reading a thread.

Regarding my progess with hair loss, I have many times explained my progression of hair loss. Stopped hair loss a very long time ago. Many ways to stop hair loss... not really hard to do with enough trial and error. Regrowth is one of the hardest things you can do however.

Not being rude... only posted this to be helpful. hope this helps

action<reaction wrote:I swear jdp had a post there a minute ago.... hahah.

lol

The forum doesn't have an edit function so have to delete and post again to make a correction.

I assumed so, haha, I've had to do that before.

I hate to throw all of this criticism your way jdp by the way, because I have so much respect for what you've accomplished.

Upon saying that, I still have a lot I want to bug you about, haha.

JDP - I know your not being rude. I appreciate your reply.

I understand about time - I just wonder about the value of some of your Rife posts (in terms of frequencys etc), if you don't have the time to post the rest.

In terms of basic progress

Where you were in terms of hair, what you noticed and where you are now.

That requires but a few lines, and would add perspective to everything else. Your D3 posts must have taken far greater time than the above would take , and are of value, but lacking context in terms of your own results.

Your own time is incredibly valuable - that is why I am puzzled by the long contributions on Rife and D3 without any basic facts of how you fared on magnesium lasers, what progress, set backs you saw and what you have achieved with Rife in terms of hair.

Otherwise, one is left to read between the lines, and I suspect this is the cause of a lot of the PMS, and questions you receive.

I have seen pragues hair, and it looks good. I have not seen any "before" pictures of him though.

The only thing that seems to really work for me, is restricting diet .. when i do that I can feel that the supplements work. The trick is,
to be fanatical about it in the beginning, and stick it out for 3-4 weeks. The change comes slowly .. Sweating alot will speed up
the process. What works for me is avoiding all processed foods except a few organic ones. And all grains.

JDP, you say that many people don't read your posts correctly.

I'll take what you said here:

Regarding my progess with hair loss, I have many times explained my progression of hair loss. Stopped hair loss a very long time ago. Many ways to stop hair loss... not really hard to do with enough trial and error. Regrowth is one of the hardest things you can do however.

You have explained the decline - as far as I can tell, little on the upside.

So, you stopped hairloss before Rife and Lasers and magnesium.

You have reported no regrowth in a specific way. Seeing as regrowth is hard, I'm assuming, as you have provided no information to the contrary (I'm being obtuse here, not becuase I agree, but to highlight a lack of clarity) that you have not regrown anything significant.

Which, will logically lead to the following conclusion:

Hair loss was stopped before Rife.
No specific hair regrowth results have been reported with Rife

Ergo - Rife is at best a substitute for previous methods and has not achieved any regrowth. Whilst fantastic for general health or promising great future results, RIFE has not significantly surpassed results achieved previously.

What I am attempting, badly to say, whilst it may not have been your intention to portray that you had done more that arrest your hairloss a long time ago, many newer members are looking to you and Prague assuming you have had almost complete regrowth.

I understand that you do not make a financial gain out of your posts and time is valuable - I wouldn't suggest otherwise.

However, you have burdened yourself with so many questions because of the large effort and consumption of time that you engage in with some posts, versus a lack of specifics on progress.

CPIO

I have seen some results using Pragues methods.

However, for the majority of people on the forum, what Prague has posted serves as confusion.

Did he regrow to a NW1 with Progesterone and Maca?

Did he then lose hair

Did he progress to a NW1 with Papaya and Hylauranic Acid?

So why the switch to colloidals for want of a more accurate term?

If Prague and JDP have achieved the results the majority want that is great - but in Pragues case little has been shown of how far he has come since Papaya - in his own words I mean.

In terms of time, I'm sure Prague would argue he cannot devote more time - yet more time is spent on long cryptic explainations that confuse newer members rather than stating:

Maca and Prague took me from a NW3 to NW1 (which I believe he did state many years ago)
Papaya made my hairline crazy - took me to a NW1
In which case, where has his latest approach taken him.

That takes but a few lines, as opposed to the long and highly complex posts we have seen in the past.

This is not to knock Prague or JDP but rather to illustrate the common perception or misconception about them having conquered hairloss among the majority of silent members.

They have brought a lot of the time consuming questions upon themselves by mentioning part of what they are doing, but missing out other parts.

Whilst they might not agree with my assessment, I am certain many junior members understand what I am saying, and it is for them that I write this.

As far as I understand Pragues first approach failed him, along the way .. since at that point he accepted his hair loss
for the first ever (his own words). That was when he made a breakthrough with the topical use of some protease enzymes.
I can vouch for this use as well, I still use bromelain but dont need to very often anylonger. The trick to using enzymes topically
is using a very little solution, like 1% or so, and resist temptation to use more.

This new esoteric approach of Prague i have not followed and dont want to comment on.

I am unsure if my current little island of about twenty hairs growing on my bald temples is the delayed results of massive amounts of Papaya, or the more esoteric approach.

I'm not sure anyone can answer that, even Prague himself.

I've answered all the questions. I've posted this before. And I didn't say people aren't reading my posts correctly. I'm saying if you spend 30 seconds reading a post then most people won't understand. I've posted all the relevant frequencies too. There is no reason to explain some questions such as what is Rife as that's what google is there for.

I've explained that running frequencies to correct the unconverted D3 that builds up in my body made me stronger and stronger immune system. Taking a D3 supplement suppresses your immune system and there are long-term consequences of taking a D3 supplement especially without co-factors. This isn't a wild theory and is backed up with my own results. To avoid confusion no, I don't advocate the Marshall Protocol. Yes, I recommend sun exposure.

I don't talk about information from a theory that sounds good. I research it, try it out for myself and then post results and my own findings. I never talk about something I've never tried before and why I can't talk about Pragues' findings as there would be no better way for me to spread disinformation. This is what you see on other hair loss forums... people commenting on someones results that haven't even tried it themselves.

When someone gets to the point of stopping their hair loss they'll eventually realize the ways they can restart hair loss. It's the same with me. So long as I kept up with the LLLT, used magnesium so the LLLT can be used and a good topical to fight bacteria, fungus, etc. hair loss would be fine. Or so long as I kept up with a diet that pertains to hair loss I'd be fine. Deviate from this and results willdisappear. As I've mentioned before, Rife allows all this deviation. I can eat the worst of the worst and still nothing. I'm sure I can even take something as insane as steroids and still be fine. Because of this ability to deviate and research, I believe this is the source.

In short, when you're at the tip of the spear regarding new information there will always be confusion and those that doubt. Not braggin one bit but everything I've ever tried or recommended has always turned out in one form or another to hold weight. I remember all those that doubted massive doses of Saw Palmetto. I remember LLLT. I remember what happened with Iodine. I remember what happened regarding diet as how it pertains to autoimmune conditions. Rife is no different. Maybe one day, someone will post their findings to prove to the doubters. However, that's not for me. Believe me or not, that's not up to me. I'm here to post my research and findings and not to provide proof. There have been three others before me on the internet that have tried this and reported their results so I'm not the first. But I am the first who posts in hair loss forums and thus first to post this information in a hair loss forum.

I never comment if I don't believe this would be helpful to either you or someone else so...

hope this helps

Hi,

I think I understand more clearly - you are saying that as a research tool - Rife allows you to test in a way not possible before.

This is hugely important as a step forward.

The point you are not addressing is that many newer members believe you have all of the answers regarding regrowing hair not researching, implementing. In other words, results. I'm not talking about photos, they have no value to most people on this forum I suspect.

I research it, try it out for myself and then post results and my own findings

Unless I've missed something you've posted - I've not heard you state where your hair was at the time of stabilisation, nor any results in terms of regrowth since then.

You have learned what affects your hair, probably more than anyone - but many readers look for some sort of progress and probably imagine you have regrown a lot of hair because you are so well respected and knowledgable.

The lack of specific comment on the lack, or abundance and amount of hair regrowth on your part here invites random.
interpretation.

I really have a huge amount of respect for you, and I think you have brought some amazing things to the forum, but it is clear that a lot of members will read things like you are 'retiring' to mean your hair has regrown to a significant degree....

I'm don't want to annoy or irritate with my commentary but I wouldn't be surprised if others share this sentiment.

What is rife?

Look up rife on curezone.com - its a machine that sends different frequencies through your body to kill intruders (parasites, what have you). Very interesting.

Especially since a year ago i learned about fractals and frequencies. The earth has a frequency, humans have a frequency, everything does.

I think maybe we have to stop focusing on what one person said or didn't say, and start asking the real questions here, cut straight to it.

We know that there have been amazing results from the topicals, for removing calcification. We don't really know what causes calcification yet (theorized that it's an autoimmune reaction to pathogens, or pathogens themselvesdoing it) but we also know that it's not solving the real problem. The guy (prague) who started the whole deal with the enzymes then comes back around the same time as jdp with a purported easy solution(treatment, cure, whatever) that is basically working on the same issues as the enzymes did for hairloss. Then upon looking at it all from further back we can clearly see that we are using different mediums to achieve the same results: clearing the pathogens from the body, detoxing, etc. Caustic himself achieves similar results from his internals (but combats the effects of the pathogens, bacteria, etc moreso than the problems themselves) but has never said so in so few words.

So... how are these approaches achieving the same thing? Why isn't anybody asking that question?

jdp701 wrote:Nothing worse for a poster than to spend 30 minutes creating a post only for post to be drowned out by those who don't know how to perform a google search or by those that spend 30 seconds reading a post. The "throw away your vitamin D3" is a classic example. Someone spends 30 seconds reading why D3 supplement is harmful then a poster attacks the information posted. The problem though is attach has nothing to do with thread... eventually the thread gets drowned out ----> why it was longer than 3 pages. I even had someone telling me I was the one being rude for constantly correcting poster that their post has nothing to do with topic of thread. So again, problems are from those that only spend 30 seconds reading a thread.

Yes, and your vitamin D3 thread was one of the most obnoxious and incoherent ones to date, precisely because you refused to answer simple questions, simply.

In fact, you even used a Dr. Mercola newsletter to support one of your claims, which was fine. Unfortunately, you were ignorant to the fact that he is not against taking vitamin D3 supplements. He advocates the use of them.

Again, learn to preface your opinions with "I believe" or "I think," especially when you have nothing more than a personal testimony to back up your claims.

Hey Guys,

Ive got to say I am finding this whole attitude toward JDP really annoying. No one has ever been more forthcoming or giving with his time and knowledge than JDP. Most of my regime is the result of his research( and yes, Pragues enzyme topical and CS's supplements) and I have had very satisfying results. And , hell yeah, if I had a spare 2000 bucks I would be buying a RIFE. Because JDP is an all-knowing guru? No! He has just been right more times than I can count!

Yeah , I am a little frustrated by the opaqueness of some of Pragues or JDP's responses lately but that is my problem! Anyone who has a full life knows how hard it is to respond as deeply as one can with unlimited time.

All posters, old and new, should be wise enough to read implicitly that these are his( and CS's and Pragues) opinions. People willingness to regard others as all knowing gurus is their problem!

I'd like to comment on a few things brought up in this thread so far.

I think jdp710 and Prague deserve a lot of credit for dealing with "X" number of private messages and countless questions.

Also I think some new members are understandingly confused since many of what is discussed is based a building of prior knowledge.

I'm 100% confident as far is what causes calcium build-up, because I've dealt with so many heart patients and my line of work for years centered around most of the A to Z diseases.

For the most part, all questions I've seen on this forum for months are not new questions, with very few exceptions. All have been answered many times over and over again.

Sometimes I get so many private messages in a today, I barely spend any time reading the basic forum. So I can imagine that jdp and Prague get plenty as well.

If one is looking for a starting point maybe go back a year and reading everything forward and read anything that is of interest. At times it may provoke more questions than answers, but eventually it will make more sense each time.

Regarding rife, I'm sure jdp is getting bombarded with this question. I first learned of Rife several years ago and had the opportunity to ask maybe 30 to 50 people (lost count) who had used it on how they felt about it. Royal Rife discovered a very powerful microscope that can see very close compared to a standard one. He figured out how to tune into specific frequencies that can change the behavior of microbes, etc.

He was reported to cure cancer with it until the "powers that be" get rid of everything.
Incidentally, almost all cancer is caused from jawbone infections. I bet we will still see all those pink ribbons bumper stickers on the back of cars for decades to come, trying to find a cure that already exists.

BTW,

Ive never seen anyone use the "IMHO" expression more than JDP!. He probably says that 10 times more than anyone else!

TK,

My point is that as a community, posters need to be responsible, understanding that new (as well as old) members will indeed be influenced (affected) by what is communicated on a daily basis here.

That some here present themselves as experienced (e.g. performing three-month online Internet studies and the like), they can naturally expect to be queried about the bombastic statements they make, the ones, mind you, that draw attention to themselves.

To do otherwise, in my opinion, would be irresponsible.