wrinkles and saggy skin?

What are some good ways to repair and hold off wrinkles and saggy skin? I know CS has mentioned HA and I think jdp said negative hydrogen is good. What are some others? Has anyone tried those facial exercises with good results? (forget the guy's name)

sdguy - Tremella fuciformis is even more powerful than hyaluronic acid. Also if you eat a lot of gelatin, it will lay down collagen very effectively. This has been shown in recent studies.

I just bought this stuff not long ago on a good Tremella product.

http://www.iherb.com/Grifron-Maitake-Mushroom-Wisdom-Super-Tremella-120-Veggie-Caplets/18174?at=0

That's not cheap at $23/month, have you noticed a difference in skin tone yet? I don't think you've mentioned using any topicals, do you or just internals?

What are some good sources of gelatin? All the ones I can think of are loaded with sugar. Also, hasn't jdp mentioned some negatives associated with gelatin? I can't think of what it is off-hand but I think he avoids gelatin capsules for some reason.

Would negative hydrogen work as a good sunscreen similar to astraxanthin?

gelatin has msg, and that's why jdp avoids it I believe. You may not get a reaction though. It's a YMMV thing I think.

retin-A is a good topical option too. HA serum can be used topically in addition to internally.

That's great news CS! I've been looking for an alternative to the standard hyaluronic acid supplements to increase hyaluronic acid.

sdguy,

I've seen it mentioned before about negative hydrogen plumping up skin in a manner of speaking and is true to an extent but taking hyaluronic acid would be the way to go. You may also consider taking mg doses of K2 as well.

Regarding gelatin, gelatin "capsules" are about 18% MSG. Sure one gelatin capsule won't do much for you but if you take a bunch of them you'll definitely feel it. For example, try taking 6 - 12 or more empty gelatin capsules before you go to bed. The results may be you're too wired to get to sleep. That's the MSG. Not to mention the long term use of MSG as being an excitotoxin ... damages brain cells as well as other issues

Also, I have posted a thread a bit ago where one manufacturer claimed that another manufacturers gelatin capsules contained formaldehyde and SLS. Not sure how true that is but either I try to avoid gelatin capsules as much as possible.

Paradox,

Beware of broken capillaries with Retin A ... family members experience after years of use .... quite bad.

jdp,

That's interesting about K2 and skin...I didn't know there was a link there. I'm going to read up on it. have you noticed anything personally skin-wise from mk-4? I'm reading that Weston Price used butter oil to treat people. They sell butter oil, and it's not cheap! Raspberry and pecan flavored even: http://www.greenpasture.org/retail/?t=products&a=line&i=butter-oil

Too bad I just ordered mk-7. I almost went for high-dose mk-4.

Are you just looking for a HA alternative because of cost? My bottle of NAG says it is a precursor to HA as well.

jdp701 wrote:Paradox,

Beware of broken capillaries with Retin A ... family members experience after years of use .... quite bad.

Thanks for the heads up jdp... That's not good considering the main reason I was going to start using it was to thicken up the skin under my eyes so I don't have dark circles. You can even see a vein or two under one eye. Broken capilaries would make the situation worse though. I think I may even have a couple broken already.

I don't know of anything else that can actually build collagen and thicken skin like retin-a though? I know HA works by retaining moisture, but that doesn't help with the transparency from thin skin IME so far. Any ideas, because I'm stuck?

LED's work well. I own a Talika.

Regarding dark circles under the eyes, check out this info

http://www.enzymestuff.com/nofenolfile.htm

https://www.houston-enzymes.com/store/product.php?p=7&c=1

Beyond diet, I take CarbGest on a rare occasion ... an enzyme.

Parardox,

By the way, based on some info you've posted about previously, I'd highly recommend for you to look into and experiment regarding those two links I posted.

Paradox wrote:retin-A is a good topical option too. HA serum can be used topically in addition to internally.

Unfortunately my skin's a little too sensitive for retin-A but I definitely need to order HA again, along with any skin benefits I felt marked improvement in my lower back.

jdp701 wrote:I've seen it mentioned before about negative hydrogen plumping up skin in a manner of speaking and is true to an extent but taking hyaluronic acid would be the way to go. You may also consider taking mg doses of K2 as well.

Regarding gelatin, gelatin "capsules" are about 18% MSG. Sure one gelatin capsule won't do much for you but if you take a bunch of them you'll definitely feel it. For example, try taking 6 - 12 or more empty gelatin capsules before you go to bed. The results may be you're too wired to get to sleep. That's the MSG. Not to mention the long term use of MSG as being an excitotoxin ... damages brain cells as well as other issues

Also, I have posted a thread a bit ago where one manufacturer claimed that another manufacturers gelatin capsules contained formaldehyde and SLS. Not sure how true that is but either I try to avoid gelatin capsules as much as possible.

Thx, I'm almost out of K2 and was thinking about experimenting with mg doses. I did a little looking online but didn't see any sources of gelatin without the sugar (or msg I guess), can anyone think of some off-hand?

Paradox wrote:

jdp701 wrote:Paradox,

Beware of broken capillaries with Retin A ... family members experience after years of use .... quite bad.

Thanks for the heads up jdp... That's not good considering the main reason I was going to start using it was to thicken up the skin under my eyes so I don't have dark circles. You can even see a vein or two under one eye. Broken capilaries would make the situation worse though. I think I may even have a couple broken already.

I don't know of anything else that can actually build collagen and thicken skin like retin-a though? I know HA works by retaining moisture, but that doesn't help with the transparency from thin skin IME so far. Any ideas, because I'm stuck?

So use Retin-A where the skin is thicker for lines such as your forehead and not on thin-skinned areas like around your eyes and the bridge of your nose. Copper peptides is my suggestion to you for the wrinkles around your eyes. I am a huge fan of Dr. Pickart/skinbiology and his copper peptide products. Both of these products have made a huge difference for me--they'll have to wrench the tubes of Retin-A and copper peptides from my dead fingers when I die...

Topical Vitamin C ( l ascorbic acid) has many studies showing that it increases collagen and thickens skin. I would use a 10 - 20 % concentration on your face..... and start with a 5% concentration around the eyes..... building up as you can tolerate.
Lactic acid and glycolic acid have also been shown to thicken skin.
IMO, facial exercises work...... sometimes too well - and can lead to gauntness from facial changes. I would do facial exercises no more than every other day , to allow the muscles to repair themselves.
Wrinkles and sagging will take some time to address, it will take months before anything significant will happen..... although you will probably notice a better complexion after a few weeks.
Diet is also a big factor - sugar, pastries, margerine etc need to be dropped or at least reduced.

Shea butter...the natural kind not the stuff you get at he store...stuff is really good keeps the skin looking nice and wet and contains a lot of vitamin c e and other stuff check it out.

Hello,

Retin-A is only available with a prescription? or a place I can buy? I am in canada..
I'd like to thicken up the skin under my eyes as well cause some of the veins show...... and dark circles

I just started using http://store.reverseskinaging.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=24 for the dark circles / veins under the eyes and would like Retin-A for other lines like the forhead

Thanks!

Thanks for the feedback. I was considering vitamin-c and looking on iherb at all the topical skin products. The one that stands out to me as having the most promise as far as most reviews and best selling- is this green tea EGCG cream: http://www.iherb.com/Green-Tea-Skin-Care-Natural-Anti-Aging-Green-Tea-EGCG-Cream-1-7-oz-50-ml/9678?at=0

Any thoughts/opinions on topical green tea?

I'm looking for one agent to use all over my face, so retin-a looks like it's not going to work.

As far as facial exercises go, I've never understood what muscle tone has to do with skin consistency? It is the skin that is thin overlying the muscle. For instance, on my forehead there are many horizontal lines- like ripples in water- that go all the way across when I lift my eyebrows. When I was younger there used to be 2 of them and they were only in the center of the forehead. It's obvious to me that the skin has lost elasticity and thinned. Retin-a would probably be perfect there.

Maybe retin-a on the forehead and the green tea cream on the whole face afterward might be a good combo?

Topical green tea is an excellent antioxidant and will certainly do your skin no harm....but..... it has not been shown to increase the amount of collagen in the skin. L ascorbic acid has been shown to do this many times. The only problem with LAA is that it oxidises quickly - so it is best to make it yourself fresh every day. You can buy LAA from skinactives or bulkactives.... add some distilled water and your done . It is also cheaper than buying a cream.
Facial muscles are attached to the skin....so the theory behind facial exercises is - tone the muscles and you tone the attached skin.

facial exercies via flexeffect.com definitely works. I've used it for several years. There are also some before and after pics from regular people at that site as well.

Regarding Vitamin C, the forum at essentialdayspa.com has some good DIY recipes for topical Vitamin C.

By the way, internal Vitamin C reduces hyaluronic acid. No clue if it does this topically but it's something to keep in mind and supplement later if need be.

jobey/jdp,

Thanks...

Jobey... I appreciate the tip on the topical C!


Jdp... That's good to know about internal C because I've been taking lots of it daily for adrenal support and to help chelation. For a while I was up to 10 grams a day, and recently it's been 3. Maybe that is why I didn't notice too much when I took HA internally? I don't think that one bottle is really enough time to give it a fair run though.

jdp,

I'm checking out flexeffect photos, and it looks promising. Is there something similar online for free?

Jobey, if I may ask, whats the right amount of distilled water to add to LAA?

Thx