The Natural

What is the dosing you use with your regimen?

Raxe wrote:What is the dosing you use with your regimen?

Raxe,

My standard regimen would consist of:

1 capsule of Jarrow's curcumin (morning/evening)
1 capsule of Jarrow's resveratrol (morning/evening)
1 scoop of Toco-8 (morning)
1 capsule of Nature's Way's MSM (mid-morning/afternoon/evening)

Now I am testing out Meriva's curcumin and Biotivia's resveratrol. I only take one of each daily, as I believe them to be more potent.

Do you take your Toco-8 on an empty stomach or with food? Just wondering.

Jocko59 wrote:Do you take your Toco-8 on an empty stomach or with food? Just wondering.

I take it on an empty stomach (after exercising).

The Natural wrote:

Jocko59 wrote:Do you take your Toco-8 on an empty stomach or with food? Just wondering.

I take it on an empty stomach (after exercising).

TN,

have you been taking it on an empty stomach always? I read somewhere that its better to take in the evening with food (cant remember where i read though). Anyone can confirm?

NG,

Yes, I have been taking it without food, after a workout; shower, then take curcumin and resveratrol together with yogurt or milk.

The directions state that Toco-8 can be taken with or without food, but if you have information to the contrary, then by all means, please let me (us) know.

Thanks,
TN

TN, and anyone interested

had some free time and did some googling. Yea its a company call AC Grace who advocate that tocopherols and tocotrienols should be taken apart and thus suggested that the latter is to be taken in the evening. I could not find any other supporting evidence if its better to take in the evening other than to keep a time gap from tocopherols; however, ac grace did say its best when taken with meals. http://acgrace.com/faq.html

Also, i found the following:

Immune System

[0120]Dietary tocotrienols given to immunodeficient mice prolonged their survival, presumably via an immune system boost (Tan, B., 1992). Dietary tocotrienols increased immunoglobulin (IgA, IgG and IgM) in rat spleen and MLN lymphocytes where the extent was generally more marked in the T3 group than the alpha-T1 group (Gu, J., et al., 1997; Kaku, S., et al., 1999). Compositionally, C-5 unsubstituted tocotrienols, composed of delta-T3 and gamma-T3, accounted for 75% of the tocols used in these cited studies.

Bone Mineralization

[0121]It is known that tocotrienols prevent the loss of bone mineral density, and improve the bone calcium content of growing male and female, however, alpha-T1 supplementation does not improve the mineralization of bone in female rats (Ima-Nirwana, S., et al., 2000; Norazlina, M., et al., 2002; Norazlina, M., et al., 2007).

Hypertension

[0122]Gamma-T3 has been shown to prevent the development of increased blood pressure in spontaneous hypertensive rats (SHR) and that the lowest dose of 15 mg/kg feed (approximately translating to 75 mg T3/day for humans) was best in preventing hypertension (Newaz, M. and N. Nawal, 1999). Gamma-T3 is also shown to be a sodium excreting agent, as well as, increasing endothelial nitric oxide synthase (NOS) activity to treat essential hypertension (Igarashi, O., et al., 2003; Newaz, M., et al., 2003). The water-soluble metabolite, γ-CEHC (i.e., chromanol ring without the farnesol tail; see FIG. 2) is the same metabolite for gamma-T3 and for gamma-T1. Such a metabolite has also been identified for alpha-T1, as α-CEHC. Accordingly, the metabolite for delta-T3 and delta-T1, is δ-CEHC.

Cholesterol Biosynthesis

[0123]Some 80% of cholesterol in the human body is endogenously produced in the liver, and the remaining 20% from dietary sources. Physiological studies show that cholesterol biosynthesis is nocturnal when dietary intake is at its lowest. When statin is taken in the evening versus morning, lipids drop about 10% more (Wallace, A., et al., 2003). Tocotrienols taken with food more than double their absorption and their maximum concentrations peak 4-6 hours after the supplementation (Yap, S., et al., 2001; Fairus, S., et al., 2003).

P/S: i scan through and thought that this excerpt might also mention about whens the best time to take it. but im running late now

NG,

Thanks for the information. And I'll keep that study in mind. I am familiar with AC Grace's vitamin E. Their vitamin E is in gelcap form. Toco-8, on the other hand, is in powder form, which its distributer, Primordial Performance, asserts is fresher, more biologically active.

With respect to keeping tocotrienols separate from tocopherols: "[tocotrienol preparations] low of a-tocopherol concentration were consistently effective in both cholesterol (Khor et al. 1995, Qureshi et al. 1991a, 199 Ib, and 1995) and tumor (Tan 1992) studies."

Primordial Performance's response to the latter: "It is correct that if you supplement with additional alpha-tocopherol you may mitigate these benefits, but the amount naturally present in the Toco-8 is not enough to interfere with the benefits from the tocotrienols."

In essence, the mere presence of a tocopherol, in and of itself, is not enough to negate the benefits of the tocotrienols. It depends on the amount of tocopherol present. Still, with an all-tocotrienol supplement, you wouldn't even have to worry about the possibility of such (negating the benefits). I will try out AC Grace's product before the end of this year.

TN

Yea man,

Im not really worried about the tocopherols that much as well, thats why i took jarrow's which contain a bit of it. Did took them with sesame which could increase absorption. So i guess the time taken doesnt matter but it would be more beneficial to be taken with food than an empty stomach though.

Btw TN, what does the following paragraph actually talks about , anything to do with the tocos? Statin is some other stuff or? sorry im not really good with these terms

[0123]Some 80% of cholesterol in the human body is endogenously produced in the liver, and the remaining 20% from dietary sources. Physiological studies show that cholesterol biosynthesis is nocturnal when dietary intake is at its lowest. When statin is taken in the evening versus morning, lipids drop about 10% more (Wallace, A., et al., 2003).

NG, I remember someone, a poster, once telling me that supplements are better absorbed when taken right before sleep, which could be in the day or night time. I cannot, unfortunately, explain the process in scientific terms. Maybe IH can help us out here.

It's interesting that statin works better when "dietary intake is at its lowest," while other supplements or drugs are more effective when taken with food.

Caustic,

do you have any opinions/views on when to take the various supplements to maximise effectiveness?

NoGravity - I take almost everything just before a meal or sometimes during the meal. Just prior to the meal the idea to allow the antioxidants to buffer the effects on glucose and insulin levels. During the meal is when I'll take the vitamins and minerals to enhance absorption.

A night I might take some antioxidants before going to bed to quell the free radicals generated through the various metabolic effects that occur during sleep.

Fundamentally, I think it's critical to take the primary supplements at the time of the meal to prevent spiking of glucose and insulin since this is what raises free radicals and DHT.

CS, thanks for the insight.

TN-

Apple pectin used to be a part of your regimen a few months ago.It was a hot topic back then ,chelating heavy metals for assisting in hair regrowth.
I remember you though droping it too soon. You thought it was unnecessary?

edony wrote:TN-Apple pectin used to be a part of your regimen a few months ago.It was a hot topic back then ,chelating heavy metals for assisting in hair regrowth. I remember you though droping it too soon. You thought it was unnecessary?

I used TOXGUARD by Jarrow for several months. And I still think that it's a good idea to do so periodically. Literature suggests that curcumin has the ability to remove heavy metals (e.g. iron, copper) as well.

TN,

just wondering, are you using any topical? Btw, whats the daily dosage of MSM you're taking?

Thanks

NG

NoGravity,

I haven't decided on a topical as of yet. In the past, I used the following topicals without much success:

1. Applepoly
2. Shen Min
3. Hair Again
4. Revivogen

Having stated that, it is possible that these topicals may help to thicken one's hair, provided he has a good internal regimen.

Presently taking about 3000 mg. of MSM a day.

TN

Toxguard's dose is at 2 caps per day,isn't it?
You take it at different time from the other supplemments.I believe as this is the case with Humifulvate as well,it should be taken some hours apart from the rest of regimen.

edony wrote:Toxguard's dose is at 2 caps per day,isn't it? You take it at different time from the other supplemments.I believe as this is the case with Humifulvate as well,it should be taken some hours apart from the rest of regimen.

1-3 capsules according to the bottle's label. I agree that it should be taken at different times than other supplements.

Again, here is the break down of the Capsures supplement used in the Italian hair loss study:

A daily dosage of four capsules contain:

1. 600 mg. of vitamin C
2. 600 mg. of wheat germ (vitamin E source)
3. 80 mg. of curcumin
4. 40 mg. of resveratrol
5. 50 mg. of capsaicin

Notice the dosages of the curcumin and resveratrol. This could be the case of a little going a long long way.

TN

The Natural - Thanks for detailing the patent for this. I've been thinking a lot over the last year, wondering how many of us are not taking vitamin C regularly. I often mistakenly assume that anyone on a supplement regimen is already taking some vitamin C.

While this has been mentioned numerous times in the past, here is a good idea of how important vitamin C is to hair growth. Although a special note that it results would be more effective if the vitamin C is a fat soluble form, such as ascorbyl palmitate not standard ascorbic acid.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19416266

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16406749

IH-I absolutely agree with you about the importance of vitamin C. Thank you for the articles. Admittedly, I have not been taking enough. And I am going to look for a good source of vitamin C today.

I remember taking Applepoly Booster capsules (which are 18 times stronger than your standard vitamin C), and got the best results of my life. Unfortunately, the results didn't last long, and my hair loss slowly returned after several months of use. Damn! It would have been nice to just take two capsules of apple peel extract, and call it day.

A less powerful source of vitamin C is probably best in my case. My body seems to adjust poorly to high levels of certain herbs, rendering them ineffective after a short period.

IH, do you take a vitamin C tablet. and which would you recommend I remember jdp saying alma's was a good one.

1..... - Generally a good vitamin C also contains its bioflavinoids. These are what make it really work. Since I have a few sources of bioflavinoids in my supplement routine, I usually take vitamin C in the form of Ascorbyl Palmitate, which is fat soluble vitamin C.

If I'm not using that, I'll take something like this that contains Magnesium Ascorbate with bioflavonoids.

http://www.iherb.com/Superior-Vitamin-C-1000-mg-90-Tablets/8353?at=0