Laser Therapy

NorCalBoxer - The laser helmets have sufficient power to penetrate clothing and hair.

By it on eBay using the MS cashback (currently at 25%) would put you in the range close to what Gibson is talking about.

Bettery yet, ask the seller to set the auction at $350 price (he seems to be willing to accept this as Best Offer) and then use the 25% cashback from MS ontop will net you this at $262 - if it was a deal at $350, you probably will love it at $260.

The MS cashback does not work on "Best Offers", but it work perfectly on a Bye It Now style auction for this item. Generally speaking if the seller is willing to take the $350 offer, he will most likely be willing to relist this as a private auction for you a the $350 Bye It Now price as well - specially for something in this price range.

nidhogge wrote:No cpio, you seem to misinterpret what I write all the time. :0) I undercharge for labor at $250 for the helmet construction--trust me on this one. I can post every step and how long it takes if you really want, hehe...

I just listed the price for 50 lasers and supplies based on what I can get them for. I was mentioning the difference--310 for the LaserMax and 217.50 for just the supplies/lasers for my helmet would mean under 100 labor for me, which means I'd be working at probably minimum wage per hour or less.

Nid - I PMed you about this.

Thanks.

Scotty

These home made devices have been hyped for at least 6 months...but where are the results?!
Laserstudios have been selling laser treatments for several years but many of them still uses the exact same photos - if it worked that good, where are all the photomonials showing great success? It should have arrived by now, don't you think? Shocked

No, not at all. I've only made a handful of devices, and my longest client is 3 months. He's been getting great results, btw...said his students have been commenting on his hair looking darker, and says he notices it thickening. It takes 6 months to a year for photo-worthy evidence in most cases. I haven't cut my hair since using my helmet of 80 diodes at the end of May, and can visibly see the difference between the hair at the root versus the hair at the end of the shaft.

Misirlou wrote:These home made devices have been hyped for at least 6 months...but where are the results?!
Laserstudios have been selling laser treatments for several years but many of them still uses the exact same photos - if it worked that good, where are all the photomonials showing great success? It should have arrived by now, don't you think? Shocked

I think Nid explained sometime ago that people with success fighting hairloss often do not participate in forums as much. Indeed, I have not been posting as much here of late in part because I have made major strides in combating hair loss. I am not taking many supplements or topicals, but the one thing I am doing religiously is using my laser helmet.

As far as regrowth goes, I see a million little tiny hairs in areas that have been completely bald for a couple years. But more importantly, the existing hairs I do have have all thickened up (as in diameter of the hair itself). And even more important than that, I have had very, very little fall out.

Now if I could get my hands on a really kick ass topical (wink, nudge), I think I'd be rocking and rolling in no time. But the bottom line is that the lasers work and Nid may be the best way to get a quality laser product in your hand.

I hope you guys are correct. About these lasers, I've seen guys having both focused beams and this other technique, non-focused? What is best? How does it work? In my simple mind, removing the lens would really lower the power/square inch?

It'd lower the power if it was a far distance from the scalp, but it's not--it's 2cm. So, it increases the effectiveness of each diode greatly.

EIC--

Those are some killer results bro! Don't slack off with it, keep going. Can't wait for my treatment today--I look forward to them!

so unfocused is the way to go then? Damn it is hard to calculate the proper treatment time - I've heard that too much stimulation will have the opposite effect !!

Misirlou wrote:so unfocused is the way to go then? Damn it is hard to calculate the proper treatment time - I've heard that too much stimulation will have the opposite effect !!

Yeah, but there is a window of acceptable stimulation. Off the top of my head, I think OMG calculated it at between 6 and 12 joules. So you've got some room to play with. I do 30 minutes 3 times a week and it seems to work fine for me. My device has 115 diodes, for what it's worth.

nidhogge wrote:

EIC--

Those are some killer results bro! Don't slack off with it, keep going. Can't wait for my treatment today--I look forward to them!

Yeah, I'm pretty pleased. The fall out dwindled for about a month until, one day, I realized that I hadn't seen any hairs in the shower for awhile. The thickness is the best part; the hair just feels healthier. As I told you before, I haven't noticed as much regrowth as I'd hoped, but I've only be at it for two months. I won't slack, I promise!

Hi, im seriously considering getting a lasermax 50 as mentioned earlier in this thread. Before I drop 400 USD, is there anyone with an update to the laser treatment and its effectiveness?
http://www.compsource.com/pn/LaserMaxLaserBIG50/Hairmax_1361/

Slow--

I'd hold off, and save up another $600 to get a helmet from myself or OMG. The 50 just isn't anywhere near as effective as having 300 lasers, diffused, giving you full coverage. This is what I use myself and have been continually getting solid results with, and many others. Either that, or you can build your own Laser Messiah with the instructions on OverMachoGrande.com!

These "solid results"....are they shy for the camera or what?
Haven't seen a lot of photos I'm afraid

Hey nidhogge,

Any truth to this?

30/60 635nM diodes transfers more energy quicker than 650nM because of the wavelength. Also, the pulsing action supposedly resonates with mitochondria making the effects of the laser occur much more quickly.

I know you mentioned that Sunetics uses the 650nM diodes. Just wondering if one types better than the other? Maybe you could trying making a helmet with the 635nM diodes and see what the results are. I'll be willing to try one out!

and this one....

Under no circumstance should you guys be doing every other day with any kind of laser. That's like doing bench presses every other day. (Quote from JimmyDavis about William Gaunitz response, could this be causing what people call the scale pump or ache after lasering?

I think the laser's are the best way to go and am going to be getting one very soon. I'm just trying to determine what's the best option for my colour hair (i.e. # of diodes, model / design, diffused vs non-diffused, black hair vs blonde hair for determining treatment times and frequencies etc..).

The frequency will depend on the treatment times as the effects are cumulative but not completely cumulative. Example: 10 minutes Monday and 10 minutes Tuesday do not equal just 20 minutes on Monday. Make sense?

I am blonde and fair skinned. My current protocol is 10 minutes day 1, 10 minutes day 2, rest day 3. Rinse and repeat. I prefer this over the 20 minutes 3 times a week and feel my scalp is more stabilized. But I am the minority. MOST people do great at 20 minutes 3 times a week. If I ever get my hands on a full scale helmet then I would probably try 20 minutes again. But right now I am happy.

Misirlou wrote:These "solid results"....are they shy for the camera or what?
Haven't seen a lot of photos I'm afraid

http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-forums/viewthread.cfm?f=1&t=24421

rossman wrote:Hey nidhogge,

Any truth to this?

30/60 635nM diodes transfers more energy quicker than 650nM because of the wavelength. Also, the pulsing action supposedly resonates with mitochondria making the effects of the laser occur much more quickly.

I don't mean to answer for nidhogge but notice the statement of "the effects of the laser occur much more quickly." Notice how gaunitz didn't say better but "more quickly." IME, using 590 nm LED's on my face, that's exactly what the results are. Pulsed LED's = faster results. Just not necessarily better results.

hope this helps

Let me share my experience with laser helmet. I'm using 55 pcs those axis diodes from OMG site for about 8-9 months now, mounted on my own construction which I move over 3 head areas (front-top-crown). I'm using this number because of price and cheap power supply which can power properly exactly this number of diodes according to calculation from OMG. First 5 months I used 20m 3 times per week, but after that time I saw no results, so I revisited the usage. I was using diffused diodes from the distance 1cm between the diode and scalp. This seems to be too close according to general OMG recommendations and calculations (which are for 2cm distance). In my case from distance 1cm it covers around 30-40% of scalp area fully, 10% less intensively and none the rest, so I always moved my mounting a little bit after 10m of usage to cover more area in one session.
As I thought 20 minutes with 1cm distance can be too much, I'm using 15m for last 4 months without any noticeable result.

Background: I think I experience virtually no excessive fallback (thanks to supplements and diet), but I believe thinning is still going on, although very slowly and not noticeably. My front is receded and top thinning, bit thinning on crown as well.

The lasermax is the most neglected part of my routine. The result is no results I can attribute to it. I forgo the stand when i use it, and just hold it over my head for 15 minutes, or so. It can fit in a suitcase, no problem, and I took it on vacation with me, but i didn't even use it once. I know this offers little help. but I figured i should provide an update since I began the thread with tremendous enthusiasm for the device.

So Gibson you are not satisfied with the (lack of) results from your laser?

Let's just say I'm not moved by it. It is one of those things in my regimen that i do, on and off, but don't feel strongly about: kinda like Rutin.

I finally completed my helmet about ten - twelve days ago. Rather than using foam as suggested by OMG I made one out of silicon. I am amazed at the results. My scalp feels fundamentally different! It actually feels good rather than mildly itchy or just plain unhealthy. Its hard to discribe what "good" or "unhealthy" feel like but I think those who can sense their scalps know what I mean. There is a palpable feeling of well being that lasts all day! Rather than an hour or two as it might after a msm, emu and vit c, or iodide topical.

Their has also been a mild cosmetic improvement. Rather than lying flat and dead, my hair now stands up and looks lively. Hard to believe- but it also appears thicker.

Misirlou wrote:These "solid results"....are they shy for the camera or what?
Haven't seen a lot of photos I'm afraid

Mis, best I can do is give you the e-mail addresses of the few customers who have kept in contact with me that have been using it for about a year now. They're quite happy! Even sent their devices for an upgrade. I've not heard really any good feedback regarding the LaserMax...a bit here and there, but nothing too significant.

rossman wrote:Hey nidhogge,

Any truth to this?

30/60 635nM diodes transfers more energy quicker than 650nM because of the wavelength. Also, the pulsing action supposedly resonates with mitochondria making the effects of the laser occur much more quickly.

I know you mentioned that Sunetics uses the 650nM diodes. Just wondering if one types better than the other? Maybe you could trying making a helmet with the 635nM diodes and see what the results are. I'll be willing to try one out!

and this one....

Under no circumstance should you guys be doing every other day with any kind of laser. That's like doing bench presses every other day. (Quote from JimmyDavis about William Gaunitz response, could this be causing what people call the scale pump or ache after lasering?

I think the laser's are the best way to go and am going to be getting one very soon. I'm just trying to determine what's the best option for my colour hair (i.e. # of diodes, model / design, diffused vs non-diffused, black hair vs blonde hair for determining treatment times and frequencies etc..).

According to Dr. Maricle, anything from 635 to 700 should yield the same results. The only difference then, is price. The 650s are the most affordable. Until Gaunitiz posts a peer-reviewed study comparing pulsed 635s to 650, whatever they say is heresy. Dr. Maricle has provided before-and-afters with the Sunetics devices using ONLY LLLT, and the results were astounding. The Sunetics devices use the same exact diodes that we do in our helmets.

I was talking to OMG on the phone about folks that haven't been getting results with our helmets and, lo and behold, there is a pattern. That pattern being usage of 30-45 minutes. When they lower to 20, they get results.

The bench press analogy is very poor. For one, as a bodybuilder, I'll tell you that the general rule of thumb is that when a body part's soreness ceases, you generally give it one day of rest after that. I never get sore with lasering, and I feel like I'm ready for another treatment in 2 days from the current treatment. Then, you give your scalp 2 days of rest. So, Mon/Wed/Fri.

That said, pulsing is very interesting and could give you quicker results. However, better? No evidence of this thus far.