Building Muscle without weight gain - which supplements really help without side effects

I would like to know what are the best supplements for making muscle and increasing strength.

The most obvious one is creatine, but I've heard this causes water weight gain and even some say possibly causes hair loss.

I want to gain lean muscle and don't really like the bulked up bear look. Is it possible to gain muscle using supplements without the weight gain? I am already going to the gym regularly.

Kind regards,

Mike

MikeGore wrote:I would like to know what are the best supplements for making muscle and increasing strength.

The most obvious one is creatine, but I've heard this causes water weight gain and even some say possibly causes hair loss.

I want to gain lean muscle and don't really like the bulked up bear look. Is it possible to gain muscle using supplements without the weight gain? I am already going to the gym regularly.

Kind regards,

Mike

Was hoping others would weigh in on this. There are things that work, and I'll make a really short list, but there are plenty of options.

Creatine is not a pro-hair loss supplement. The 'science' on this is ridiculously flawed. Let's try to settle this right now.
An elevation of serum DHT does not equate to hair loss. That might seem like a reasonable deduction, but it just isn't so. In fact the opposite is true. High serum DHT is inversely correlated to hair loss. So what is correlated?  Salivary DHT.

Some other peptides and amino acids to check out.

CJC 1295, Ipamorelin, Arginine, Lysine, 
Ornithine, Natural Eggshell Membrane Extract

Creatine with carnosine works better than Creatine alone and note...would not suggest Beta Alanine (histamine problems with that).

Thanks CS. I've used creatine in the past and it made a noticeable difference in the physique department, unlike a lot of supplements that you take and are never really sure if they're doing anything.

I've stayed away from it in recent years because of the rugby player study and lots of online anecdotes suggesting it hastens hair loss.

If finasteride lowers serum DHT and grows hair, wouldn't creatine's elevating serum DHT (and maybe consequently salivary DHT levels too) have the opposite effect?

If CS or anyone cares to weigh in, I'd love to be convinced that creatine is hair-safe. I'm currently on finasteride (got a little desperate in the last year), and would hate to be undermining the action of the drug.

Thanks.

finasteride poisons the 5-AR enzyme. Doesn't automatically lower serum DHT.  In fact, many will report low serum DHT on Finasteride.

@CS Regarding this topic, I'd like to ask a few things If I may.

Is shedding correlated with body building ? A friend of mine told me that anabolic state somehow triggers shedding in some people. Did a quick google but didn't come across anything other than the correlation between anabolic steroids and hairloss.

I've started going to the gym in july, after doing some strength training I'm planning on doing some mass(not like a dirty bulk but rather put on some muscle without getting too fat). So I'm thinking about getting on some supplements. I'm an ectomorph mesomorph hybrid(like 70% ectomorph tho) so I can't gain muscle mass easily. My body isn't just built in a way to benefit from body building too much without doing any drastic changes it seems. I'm wondering if Whey protein is safe ? A pt also suggested that I use cassein protein at night. I've used whey before, but again, someone told me that most of whey is imported from ireland where there are some prion diseases. Is it something I should worry about ?
Are there any specific brands of whey protein that are better than others ?

edit : Also are there any natural food that I can use instead or inconjunction with body building supplements ?

Nuada wrote:@CS Regarding this topic, I'd like to ask a few things If I may.

Is shedding correlated with body building ? A friend of mine told me that anabolic state somehow triggers shedding in some people. Did a quick google but didn't come across anything other than the correlation between anabolic steroids and hairloss.

I've started going to the gym in july, after doing some strength training I'm planning on doing some mass(not like a dirty bulk but rather put on some muscle without getting too fat). So I'm thinking about getting on some supplements. I'm an ectomorph mesomorph hybrid(like 70% ectomorph tho) so I can't gain muscle mass easily. My body isn't just built in a way to benefit from body building too much without doing any drastic changes it seems. I'm wondering if Whey protein is safe ? A pt also suggested that I use cassein protein at night. I've used whey before, but again, someone told me that most of whey is imported from ireland where there are some prion diseases. Is it something I should worry about ?
Are there any specific brands of whey protein that are better than others ?

edit : Also are there any natural food that I can use instead or inconjunction with body building supplements ?

I would suggest that based on the best data we have, and well-unfortunately, there isn't any objective data on this topic.

However, I do have a strong opinion based on empirical evidence. 

Bodybuilding or focusing on anabolism has a contradiction, the "cutting" process and/or shedding fat--and that is far more likely to be the real culprit in "growth" 'side effects'

In other words, there's always the growth and then the cutting phase.  So to that end, if you're leaning on the ectomorph side, then your metabolism is constantly in the "cutting phase" which means in theory, the liver and other components of metabolism are working faster (fast oxidizer) and will cause more shedding of hair. Think of Dr. Mercola during his grain eating days...he credits following the wrong diet ideology to destroying his hair.

Ectomorph's have more rapid digestion (rarely get constipated). Also, instead of building tissue some of the food gets converted into heat energy (which creates more heat...that's a whole different topic, but not pro-hair). In any event, their metabolism is "souped" up and without a lot of subcutaneous fat, there's less "buffer" to protect from oxidation.

That said, what of the anabolism effect. Theoretically, during a high reach for anabolic growth, does stir up more prostaglandins (bad for hair as I'm sure we already know that).

So what about growth foods?

Without prejudice towards an individual's sensitivities, which would need to be ruled out, eating sashimi, or raw fish, red meats or at least as close to rare as possible are best for growth. Everything else comes second.

Beyond that there is nitrogen balancing if you want to stray into the isolates (protein amino acids).

CausticSymmetry wrote:


I would suggest that based on the best data we have, and well-unfortunately, there isn't any objective data on this topic.

However, I do have a strong opinion based on empirical evidence. 

Bodybuilding or focusing on anabolism has a contradiction, the "cutting" process and/or shedding fat--and that is far more likely to be the real culprit in "growth" 'side effects'

In other words, there's always the growth and then the cutting phase.  So to that end, if you're leaning on the ectomorph side, then your metabolism is constantly in the "cutting phase" which means in theory, the liver and other components of metabolism are working faster (fast oxidizer) and will cause more shedding of hair. Think of Dr. Mercola during his grain eating days...he credits following the wrong diet ideology to destroying his hair.

Ectomorph's have more rapid digestion (rarely get constipated). Also, instead of building tissue some of the food gets converted into heat energy (which creates more heat...that's a whole different topic, but not pro-hair). In any event, their metabolism is "souped" up and without a lot of subcutaneous fat, there's less "buffer" to protect from oxidation.

That said, what of the anabolism effect. Theoretically, during a high reach for anabolic growth, does stir up more prostaglandins (bad for hair as I'm sure we already know that).

So what about growth foods?

Without prejudice towards an individual's sensitivities, which would need to be ruled out, eating sashimi, or raw fish, red meats or at least as close to rare as possible is best for growth. Everything else comes second.

Beyond that, there is nitrogen balancing if you want to stray into the isolates (protein amino acids).

CS, it seems '' ectomorphs'' are people with many definitions. But it is true that their physiology = stress squared from fat, vascular and probably also skeletal POV.
If body fat is too low, will also have issues with processing various environmental toxins in a cycle that it can influence one another. Fat cells are really buffer to diffuse in some potent toxins preventing the body to react systemically.
Neurotoxins can, however, act in as Gdf15 gene regulation, suppressing appetite, resulting one eats itself becoming ''ectomorph''. Fat buffer seems to be very protective for acute toxic spikes we all get exposed from time to time...

I know I was affected by this, and suffered hypoglycemia and cool off myself until identified the pattern of toxic insult, and not the thyroid. Checking the other origin as gut -  takin restore product really slowed down the digestion and bowel movements, resulting in more dense stools. Which really indicates there is a gut-metabolic connection to it.

Said that, are the ways to increase subcutaneous fat, other ways as cold exposure and said interventions? Management with antiinflammatory solutions is not a permanent fix despite I works if practised. 15minutes before the meal, and you can prevent most of the damage, IME.

https://hms.harvard.edu/news/toxin-response


Knowing

[quote="CausticSymmetry"]

Nuada wrote:

Without prejudice towards an individual's sensitivities, which would need to be ruled out, eating sashimi, or raw fish, red meats or at least as close to rare as possible are best for growth. Everything else comes second.

Beyond that there is nitrogen balancing if you want to stray into the isolates (protein amino acids).

I don't eat red meat. I might try raw fish tho. Are you also referring to veggies when you say raw ?

I've also heard that blood group plays a factor here. I'm Arh+, should I go to a dietitian and get a list or something.
I don't know much about nitrogen balancing TBH.

As for Whey protein. Do you think it is safe to take ?

Sorry If I'm overzealos with questions but I'm very clueless about diet.

I cannot answer specifically, no did not mean raw vegetables. Diet advice is an individual journey. Also, despite some popular blood type tendencies, people can deviate from this. In my opinion, gut microbes play a large role in overall metabolism.

Thanks for all the input, much appreciated.

I would love to know more about Ipamorelin. From what I have seen, this is mostly injection. I haven't been able to find this in supplement or sublingual form. If anyone knows a link to where I can buy in oral form will be much appreciated. The only thing I did come across was nasal spray inhaler, but don't know if these are any good.

Are there any side effects to Ipamorelin? I wouldn't want to developed any unexpected side effects like cancer, skin moles, hair loss, gyno or anything else for that matter.

Cheers

Somehow I started gaining muscle without much training since the lockdown began in March. It probably has been due to lower stress.

I wish I realized this several years ago but for whatever reason commuting (especially using public transportation) was really taking a toll on me. Not just the commute itself but walking from the station to work and back again, was probably increasing my cortisol levels. I wouldn't describe it as motion sickness, but the unnatural movements of trains and buses caused a lasting fatigue. When the body is exposed to a constant low-level strain, there is cortisol and breakdown of muscle.

I also wonder if cortisol levels have been lower because lockdown means that I no longer have the stress of constant in-person interactions with others. Currently only interacting regularly with immediate family members. And somehow that has lifted some stress. Some people are more introverted and being around others constantly cause anxiety.

Another factor is that during the last several months have made some effort to reconcile with a family member. This was for sure significant because, during a period of several months when the conflict resumed with that person, I quickly started losing muscle mass again.

Something else is that I noticed that I start losing muscle everytime I resume using porn. The symptoms I have are elevated body temperature, heart rate, and racing thoughts. The symptoms are persistent, not just when I am actually viewing porn. I wonder if it's related to the epinephrine or some other hormone. But I think the feeling of elevated body temperature is a sure indication.

I think the body naturally is anabolic. Whatever is increasing cortisol is what needs to be addressed. In my case, I've always been underweight and my theory is that it has been caused by anxiety.

imprisoned-radical wrote:

Something else is that I noticed that I start losing muscle everytime I resume using porn. The symptoms I have are elevated body temperature, heart rate, and racing thoughts. The symptoms are persistent, not just when I am actually viewing porn. I wonder if it's related to the epinephrine or some other hormone. But I think the feeling of elevated body temperature is a sure indication.

I think the body naturally is anabolic. Whatever is increasing cortisol is what needs to be addressed. In my case, I've always been underweight and my theory is that it has been caused by anxiety.

I'm an anxious person by nature as well. My stress levels can elevate pretty quickly without me noticing.
I haven't paid much attention to the correlation of porn and muscle mass but those symptoms you mentioned also become present in me if I browse porn and masturbate.
Weird shit really. Masturbation feels good, you'd think it would be good for health but I guess there is something about porn that triggers other stuff.

Sex on the other hand, is quite the opposite. You feel calm and relaxed after.
In the last few months my girlfriend had a fungi problem in her vagina which for some reason doctors couldn't resolve(they just prescribe some generic medicine), and sex kinda triggers it so I've avoided it. That coupled with lack of activity overall due to the pandemic, I kind of started looking at porn. I always think I have it under control but I'm guessin even a couple of hours a week is too much.

My crown has thinned in the last 3 months(became noticable around july) I'm pretty sure increased porn activity has also contributed to it, on top of other stuff.

Nuada wrote:
I don't eat red meat. I might try raw fish tho. Are you also referring to veggies when you say raw ?

As for Whey protein. Do you think it is safe to take ?

Sorry If I'm overzealos with questions but I'm very clueless about diet.

Whey protein makes me sick, even expensive brands of grass fed whey. Nothing comparably awful happens when I consume milk, cream or butter. Whey is a processed food. Usually sunflower or soy lecithin is used as an emulsifier.

The solution to your problem might be to start eating red meat.  It's a natural and time-tested way to get many of the same amino acids.