CS need your help! Minoxidil - How does it work and what is the alternative?

There is no doubt that minoxidil works like a charm in promoting hair growth. However, this simple topical irritates scalp quite a bit and many people cannot tolerate using it for the long run. In addition, once one starts using minox, it is very difficult to assess why the hair is falling out; hair can fall out due to health issues, genetics, loss of collagen, or increased hair cycle activity caused by minox.

I stopped using minox November of last year and definitely lost a lot of ground after giving up on minox. I've read some posts saying that minox works by promoting PGE2 activity. Certirizine is known to promote PGE2, so there was an experimental thread that used cetirizine (brand name: Zyrtec) both in topical and oral forms to promote hair growth. Unfortunately, nobody reported success, as far as I remember. There was a different thread that mentioned niacin as a potential PGE2 promotor, but no conclusion was made on niacin as well.

Does minoxidil work solely by promoting PGE2? If so, how does loss of collagen occur from minox? Is there any supplemental alternatives that we can take to promote hair growth internally rather than externally? Please share your thoughts. Thank you.

http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateMinoxidilAlternatives6-11.html

Potassium Choride 191 mg. Biotin 150 ug mcg.
Optimized Carnitine 800 mg. - maybe use lysine instead
L-Leucine 150mg.
Isoleucine 75 mg.
Valine 75 mg.
Niacin 40mg.


topical aspirin

1. NIACINAMIDE
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17147561
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18492135
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25399625
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17147561
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24635573
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18492206

1.1 Hyperpigmentation and Skin Aging (niacinamide)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18492135
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25399625
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24993939
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16029679
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18047609
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23355788
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19845667
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24033822
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21822427
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16766489
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15807725

1.2 UV Damage (niacinamide)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12615518
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19804594
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22123419
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24798949
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22709272
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23349012
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23397947
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24313740
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20354654
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20492562
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19028705
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17882270
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15748504
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9427980
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10674181
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2138506



2. CAFFEINE
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17396054
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18070215
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10332073

2.1 Sunscreen effects (caffeine)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16864596

2.2 Skin cancer (caffeine)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC129466/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25591953
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21505179
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3353410/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18179623
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17388926
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12570332
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12392153

2.3 Other skin conditions (caffeine)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11712038
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8740461
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17214716
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25382163
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3500065/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24704471
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21179241
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16249145
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9809669


3. ASPIRIN
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20950260
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16949225
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8339418
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12013195
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9059677

Changexpert wrote:There is no doubt that minoxidil works like a charm in promoting hair growth. However, this simple topical irritates scalp quite a bit and many people cannot tolerate using it for the long run. In addition, once one starts using minox, it is very difficult to assess why the hair is falling out; hair can fall out due to health issues, genetics, loss of collagen, or increased hair cycle activity caused by minox.

I stopped using minox November of last year and definitely lost a lot of ground after giving up on minox. I've read some posts saying that minox works by promoting PGE2 activity. Certirizine is known to promote PGE2, so there was an experimental thread that used cetirizine (brand name: Zyrtec) both in topical and oral forms to promote hair growth. Unfortunately, nobody reported success, as far as I remember. There was a different thread that mentioned niacin as a potential PGE2 promotor, but no conclusion was made on niacin as well.

Does minoxidil work solely by promoting PGE2? If so, how does loss of collagen occur from minox? Is there any supplemental alternatives that we can take to promote hair growth internally rather than externally? Please share your thoughts. Thank you.

Minoxidil "works" in a lot of different ways - So far, it's not 100% conclusive on all of the mechanisms. 

It acts as a "selective" arterial vasodilator, it activates the carotid and aortic blood vessels (nerve receptors) and it increases levels of renin and norepinephrine (usually not something you want to see in a "pro-hair growth" substance). Minoxidil also activates prostaglandin synthase-1, however it works mostly as an inhibitor prostaglandin E2 (PGE2). 

I do know this, if you're sulfur deficient (and many of us have lower than optimal levels), minoxidil's effect will be next to nothing. Minoxidil change to work increase by 80% if enough sulfur is consumed. Still, the side-effects are not worth it.

Minoxidil also reduces androgen receptors (not what most people assume), it also increases potassium ATP channels. I believe it also acts as sulfur transporter, this is why it seems to work better if there is enough sulfur to to around). Still, minoxidil deranges collagen, so it's not worth the risk.

Micro-needling is superior to minoxidil (if you add a better topical, results will be better). Rosemary topically works better than minoxidil. The company I am affiliated with sells a shampoo that contains it along with other ingredients (we had some unexpected testimonies on it) involving scalp pain relief, itching etc. (note that I do not use it, but I do avoid "regular shampoos")

CausticSymmetry wrote:
Minoxidil "works" in a lot of different ways - So far, it's not 100% conclusive on all of the mechanisms. 

It acts as a "selective" arterial vasodilator, it activates the carotid and aortic blood vessels (nerve receptors) and it increases levels of renin and norepinephrine (usually not something you want to see in a "pro-hair growth" substance). Minoxidil also activates prostaglandin synthase-1, however it works mostly as an inhibitor prostaglandin E2 (PGE2). 

I do know this, if you're sulfur deficient (and many of us have lower than optimal levels), minoxidil's effect will be next to nothing. Minoxidil change to work increase by 80% if enough sulfur is consumed. Still, the side-effects are not worth it.

Minoxidil also reduces androgen receptors (not what most people assume), it also increases potassium ATP channels. I believe it also acts as sulfur transporter, this is why it seems to work better if there is enough sulfur to to around). Still, minoxidil deranges collagen, so it's not worth the risk.

Micro-needling is superior to minoxidil (if you add a better topical, results will be better). Rosemary topically works better than minoxidil. The company I am affiliated with sells a shampoo that contains it along with other ingredients (we had some unexpected testimonies on it) involving scalp pain relief, itching etc. (note that I do not use it, but I do avoid "regular shampoos")

Interesting. So minox is a PGE2 inhibitor rather than PGE2 promotor. What shampoo or topicals do you find it most beneficial? I also pay attention to pH of the shampoo as the surface of the scalp should remain around pH of 5.5 while the shaft of hairs should be kept around 3.9.

Also, how many times should one dermaroll? I've seen contradicting studies on how frequent dermaroller should be used.

Changexpert - It's a tough question. My actual experience with topical formulas is quite limited. I've seen most of the research on just about everything out there, however my focus has been on the internals. Even the company I am affiliated with has a topical and shampoo I do not use. I've never been keen on topical methods.

All that said, there are some interesting ideas, some of them I've seen on this forum. 

Probably the only value I can add on what shampoo to avoid any with SLS (sodium lauryl sulfate), because they activate the pain receptor transient receptor potential vanilloid type 1 (TRPV1). It is not only found in most shampoos, but it is a contributor in the pain/itch pathway. Activation of that receptor causes a Ca2+ influx with secondary effects leading to neurogenic inflammation.

Also, based on the research, I go towards shampoos that have no other irritation like ingredients, and like to see some type of anti-inflammatory benefit. As mentioned Rosemary is at least as potent as minoxidil, and it's free of sides, so a nice thing to see in a shampoo. 

On derma rolling, less can be more. I've dealt with a few people who did over do it. The healing time itself offers the best environment for the wound process to occur, which is the optimal time for hair growth/regeneration.

CS, what do you think is safe frequency of derma rolling -- safe as in long term use over the years?

Also, any thoughts on needle length?

Cheers

Columbo wrote:CS, what do you think is safe frequency of derma rolling -- safe as in long term use over the years?

Also, any thoughts on needle length?

Cheers

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4458936/

Microneedling procedure

I would encourage the use of topical iodine before the procedure (it optimizes the growth medium)

A dermaroller of 1.5 mm sized needles is gently rolled over the affected areas of the scalp in longitudinal, vertical, and diagonal directions until mild erythema is observed.

Success was achieved using microneedling initially once per week for a few sessions then reduced in frequency at every 2 weeks.

good stuff, cheers. i'm back on it, but every 3-4 weeks to play it super safe.