Natural course regimen.

Well I'm an accomplished poster over at Hairloss Talk.com.
I started losing my hair about at about 17. It began with a receding hairline and aggresively evolved into a diffuse NW2.5. I now have quite thin hair at about 50% of it's original thickness at 19 years old. The crown/temporal areas and sides around my ears are the worst.
I tried several treatments but my hair loss is quite aggressive and it seems inevitable that I will become the NW4 22 year old my maternal grandfather did. I used Finasteride twice and it had quite a positive effect on my hair. Unfortuenatly, it really took it's toll on my body and the side effects were intense. Especially, erectional/ejaculate problems and depression. I could name a lot more but I'm not bothered. Finasteride seems to be the only viable treatment for MPB/AGA because it combats the main cause of MPB which is the androgen DHT. But I've taken a likeing to the natural route and I'm planning on giving it a go in conjunction with Nizoral/Revita Shampoo. I don't have much hope for these treatments as my hair loss is quite aggressive, but I'll give it a go.

Also, something I've never been able to get rid of is my inflammation. It is most present in my thinning areas, but is basically all over my head now. Ketoconazole hasn't done much and neither has the 4000mg of Omega-3 oils. This is one of my goals.

So anyway, I'm searching for the ultimate regimen or a general consensus on the perfect regimen here.

At the moment I have in my house.

L-Lysine, L-Arginine, Cayenne capsules, Omega-3 capsules and MSM.

Now could someone please indicate the best regimen. I've seen the regimen on the IMH homepage. Is generally what is taken by the "naturalists" to be the best regimen?

Also, has there been many success stories for the young guys? Or any before and after stories, these always tend to motivate me and I need a lot of that. Just to let you know I'm absolutely obsessed with my hair and keeping it. I honestly think about it 24/7 and spend a lot of time everyday researching forums and websites and suprisingly only found this one today. There seems to be so many remedies etc. cucumin/potassium/zinc/....

Also, after looking at the pictures on the home page It looks like his hair has actually got worse? What's the story with that?

Decro435 - The large photo that was taken at an unknown time had lighting that focused on the forehead instead of the hair so it looks better than it should. I did find an old photo when I went to Catalina island that looks much worse, and might be able to get the date on this one--Will look into it.

Yeah, but where are the after pictures?

Those are all the before pictures?

Update: I just added a very "good" before picture. The first three photos at the top of the screen are all before photos.
Photos that were taking under minimal or non-treatment conditions.

Everything after those three are after photos.

Great picture! I also notice that your eyebrows are noticably shorter in the three before pictures; the outer third of the eyebrows looks sparse. But in the after pictures the eyebrows look longer and fuller. More evidence of the import of a healthy thyroid?

Decro, I recently added MSM to my regimen. How much of it do you take daily?

Roughly 5000mg. I haven't seen any changes and I don't think I will even if they occur. It's just too hard to judge. Since they're so cheap and there are claims to it's benefit I'm going to continue it.

I'm sorry, but I still don't understand this. To the person who runs this site (CausticSymmetry?) the before and after pictures don't show much.

Could you post a close-up picture of your current hair like the new "before" picture you posted?

Okay, out of bed morning hair - Up late and with bad food, not ideal but here you go.

My hair is not much different here than the previous after shots shown, so I'm only gone to post this photo here.

I printed up a photo of this site, which can be viewed in the photograph:

http://www.themoneytimes.com/20090625/pop-music-icon-michael-jackson-dead-50-id-1074208.html

Thanks Caustic!

So when you began this regimen, were you losing hair in the shower etc. only to see a cessation in loss once you began this regimen?

Also, do you believe that the Top 6 is reliable?

CS, nice photo!

Perhaps Decro's question is a rhetorical one, as it obvious that you believe "the Top 6 is reliable."

And you have no doubt made a believer of many others.

Decro435 - There's a bit of a long history...I started treating my hair loss in in the early 90's not having any real clue and trying out various worthless products which at the time were kind of a joke (i.e, Helsinki Formula). Then I tried hardcore vegetable juicing which I think helped keep my hair but it was far too labor intensive and difficult with a busy work schedule. In the mid 90's I had this theory that Saw Palmetto would help since it was used to treat prostate disorders and the DHT connection. It certainly wasn't only my theory, I saw dozens of products eventually emerge that contained various natural DHT blockers. I thought I found something special with Beta-Sitosterol and used that for a number of years along with some other things. At best it helped to slow down my hair loss but at the expense of ever increasing side effects--not too dissimilar to what is described with Propecia use. In late 1999 I published an online book that is free (pretty much obsolete now days). That research was primarily limited to DHT control.

Some several years later a lot important research started to make the question of hair loss causes and treatments clearer, with a little trial and error over the years I have the current line-up. This research was inspired by how the primary diseases of aging occur, and practicing medicine in the field of orthomolecular medicine has been especially insightful as to how these processes occur on an intimate level.

Personally I have found the greatest hair loss occurred in a few key periods in my life where stress was at its highest. Relationship, personal loss related stuff. Essentially Telogen effluvium (TE) where the amount of hair that is lost is extremely disturbing and happens rather dramatically. Kind of like a massive shed that would go on for some period of time, pretty depressing. Emerging research suggests this is neurogenic inflammation and the current line-up address that aspect.

Of course there are many other focuses such as dietary avoidance (in my case reduction), but inflammation control is the major focus of the regimen.

To answer your last question, I felt my regimen to be stronger into 2007 when some major changes were made. So far here in 2009 the contributions to this board have been fantastic and I believe overall some of us having something to look forward too.

The degree at which we bald greatly differs and also the age. These are important factors that play a strong role in the outcome of any regimen. For example, very young balding types should focus heavily on androgen blockade, while those over 26 will be more effected by a wider variety of influences. Lastly, there is the "30 month opportunity window," which suggests that what we have lost after that time may have limited recovery.

"The degree at which we bald greatly differs and also the age. These are important factors that play a strong role in the outcome of any regimen. For example, very young balding types should focus heavily on androgen blockade, while those over 26 will be more effected by a wider variety of influences. Lastly, there is the "30 month opportunity window," which suggests that what we have lost after that time may have limited recovery."

I completely agree with this unfortuenatly. I started losing my hair at 17 and began a generic form of Propecia at 18. After 2 stints at the drug I realised my body could not handle it and quit. So I'm young(19) and my body can't handle androgen deprevation. Therefore, I'm kind of stuck. My hair is degrading quite quickly. I don't want to go out and spend the little money I have on vitamins and minerals which might not have any effect. Now, I understand that you've had success with this regimen and some others have as well, but since I'm young and have a more aggressive form of Androgentic Alopecia I believe I won't fair as impressively from this regimen. Would you agree?

Decro, trying is the best way to find out. It doesnt have to be expensive. Some people get great results from simple and cheap regimes, for example: flaxseed (grinded), turmeric, maca and fish oil. Easy to get and price-friendly. To inhibit dht add small-willow herb (epilobium parviflorum)

Phytochemicals of Hoary willowherb (Epilobium parviflorum.):

All willow herb species contain flavorglycosides, especially derivatives of kaempferol, quercetin, and myricetin.
Epilobium parviflorum also contains b-sitosterol, various esters of sitosterol, and sitosterol glucoside have been detected.
These are the compounds considered to be the active ingredients of Saw Palmetto, another major herb used for treating the prostate. Gallic-acid derivatives are also present. Gallic acid and ellagitannins are considered to be the actives associated with the drinking of green tea. Two of these macrocyclic ellagitannins, oenothein A and oenothein B, have been identified as the main constituents responsible for the inhibition of 5-alpha-reductase and aromatese enzymes. These enzymes are considered to play key roles in the cancer of the prostate.
Preliminary (in vitro) studies at the Prostate Center of Vancouver found that very low concentrations of an extract from small-flowered willow herb tea, in the micrograms per ml level, was among the most active ever seen against abnormal cells and growths of the prostate. Several extracts from Epilobium parviflorum, were evaluated in biochemical assays with 5-alpha-reductase and aromatase, two enzymes involved in the etiology of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). Aqueous extracts displayed inhibition of these enzymes and the active compounds identified were macrocyclic ellagitannins, oenothein A1, B1 and B2, which can make up to 14% of crude plant extracts. Out of a total of 92 plant phenolic extracts tested, small-flowered willow herb was also found to have high antioxidant activity.
Small-flowered willow herb tea is also recommended for treating urinary tract infections in women. In one study, both the large-flowered willow herb (Epilobium angustifolium) and small-flowered willow herb E. parviflorum were found to reduce inflammatory prostaglandins in the carrageenin-induced rat paw edema test; in this study, E. angustifolia was found to be 5 times more powerful than E. parviflori. Antimicrobial screening of 13 phenolic substances and 29 extracts prepared from Finnish plant materials against selected microbes found that small flower willow herb (Epilobium angustifolium L.) was one of the most active plant extracts tested against bacteria.
Chemically, the plant contains an abundance of phenolic compounds, tannins and flavonoids, many of which appear to have biological activity. Willowherb extracts possess antimicrobial effects against a number of bacteria, including recently discovered activity of the Willowherb extract, along with isolated constituents, against the bacteria, Propionibacterium acnes. Myricetin 3-0-glucuronide has been identified as one of the anti-inflammatory components of willowherb. A special elagitannin, oenothein B, is present in the plant and appears to be an active anti-inflammatory component. The reported anti-cancer activity of willowherb extract may be related to the content of oenothein B, which has been found to exhibit potent anti-tumor properties, as well as cause inhibition of the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme.
This explains the antihyperandrogenic effects that may be useful in the prevention and treatment of BPH, as well it supports the use of the extract in the prevention and treatment of prostate cancer. Scientific research has revealed the potential of oenothein B or similar compounds as useful antiviral and anticancer chemotherapeutic agents. The anti-cancer and analgesic properties of willowherb extract have been the subject of recent investigations, where significant activity has been found.

CS,

Excellent post...I'm in my early 20's and you mentioned focusing on androgen blockade. Outside the top 6 what would this include?

Thanks

Decro435 & Issac - To combat the androgens, taking 500 milligrams of Pueraria Mirifica seems to work or possible half that amount. It's definitely a bad idea to exceed 500 milligrams since there are risks of Propecia like sides beyond that dose.

There's also topical Pueraria Mirifica. I've seen evidence that this works, and it may prove to be even better than internal use but still no confirmation of that yet.

But, wouldn't that just be a less harsh version of Propecia?

Decro435 - If the dose is correct, it would probably be much stronger than Propecia with virtually no side-effects.

Why would it have no side effects. As long as it's inhibiting DHT it's doing the same job as Finasteride. Why does it matter if it's natural or not?

Decro435 - All drugs are poison. But pertaining to 5-alpha reductase inhibitors such as finasteride (Propecia) and dutasteride (do-trash-your-ride aka or Avodart), they are irreversible 5-alpha reductase inhibitors.

Suppressing this enzyme does not allow all that much androstanediol to be formed, which is the very next metabolite after DHT. This is an anti-carcinogenic androgen. It also suppresses the reductions responsible for the production of neurosteroids which, when absent can result in anxiety and depression.

These drugs have a sustained effect over this enzyme for a period of time, and in some individuals could result in potentially long-term to semi-permanent adverse effects.

Finally, I have a long standing theory (I cannot prove this), but it is based on observation only. Because the body always seeks homeostasis when possible, when a drug blocks an enzyme or protein or whatever, receptors often increase sensitivity. In other words, it's possible that when the use of the drug is stopped, the body may carry on an increased sensitivity to the androgens. I've witnessed countless similarities in other drugs, (i.e, anti-anxiety, anti-depressants, anti-hypertensives, beta-blockers, calcium channel blockers, the list goes on). Getting stuck in the 5-alpha reductase blocker cycle is a trap is perhaps enormous consequences. This is merely observation and I have no data to back this up, but if what I've seen in other drug classes is any indication it's not out of the question given what I have just casually heard over the years from fin and dut users.

Pueraria Mirifica on the other hand does not block 5-alpha reductase, rather it supplies an estriol like molecule that will reduce the inflammatory nature of excess androgens. It's possible that using it topically can further reduce the risk of unwanted side effects. If any sides occur, just reduce the dosage. The drugs do not act in a dose-dependent manner in this way.

Hey CausticSymmetry,

Do you know if Saw Palmetto is also irreversible like fin or dut?

And if so, is there anything I can take to help offset the negative long term effects?

The reason why I ask is because I took Saw Palmetto off and on somewhere between 8 - 12 years before I knew better .... I've been off of it for 2 - 2 1/2 years.

As always, thanks for your very informative posts!

Yeah, I appreciate all the help Caustic. I might as well ask as much as possible...

So do you believe adding Pueraria Mirifica would be beneficial for slowing down Androgentic Alopecia for a guy with aggressive hair loss like me?

Maybe a regimen of the Top 6 and Pueraria Mirifica?
Also, is Resveratol in the Top 6 since Cucurmin is there?

I'm still suffering side effects from Finasteride. It really took a toll on my body, would I be risking anything by the addition of Pueraria Mirifica?

jdp710 - Fortunately the natural stuff works differently but there's one side that's pretty tough to fix (Gyno), which is always a possibility in some cases.

I "abused" my body with Saw Palmetto and then followed that with Beta Sitosterol for years, the sides just slowly crept up on me until I noticed what was happening. No sustained damage, only wish I didn't start losing hair in the "dark ages."

I hope those experiments you're doing work out, I'm a huge believer in what you're doing (fighting hypercoagulation) with Lumbrokinase, Nattokinase and Serrapeptase. I think this clotting thing even if it's not diagnosed could be one of the missing links.

Decro435 - Pueraria Mirifica seems very promising for high androgens and if you try it, start with a small dose either topically or internally. It's still pretty early in this board's collective knowledge about what to expect from it since the topical products haven't been around that long.

If you're suffering from any stress, curcumin and resveratrol helps (not sure if it works for everybody in this regard).

As far as the top six, it focuses on three primary pillars which is managing inflammation, reactive oxygen species, keeping glucose/insulin levels normalized and decreasing blood viscosity. I put resveratrol on the "extras section" since acute stress isn't a factor for everybody.