Hormone Levels and a full head of hair

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZt60O-eXmw
Most incredible hair regrowth I have ever seen in my life

First of all, this post is about a natural approach to this non-natural method. What I think this guy is doing is basically controlling hormonal levels with the little money he has, unfortunately not the natural way. He has a very sad life story (you can see on a linked video he just posted). From what I could understand he is not transgender nor homosexual (watch his second video till the end), but he wanted so badly to have a full head of hair again that he started this treatment that is almost the same as transgender hormonal replacement therapy, but not going soo far to prevent him from becoming a woman. He said it was the best project he ever did. One unwanted side effect was a small breast development, which I guess we all want to avoid. My point here is to find out which natural foods and supplements stimulates and blocks which hormones, and try to create the best option for someone like me who wants to fill temples back, no sexual dysfunction, maintain beard and not develop breast or female characteristics. I strongly believe this is possible, just look those men above 35 with no receding hairline and good beard (got me curious to know the hormonal levels of them all and see if there are correlations). Interesting point was that finasteride and minoxidil were not good for him so he stopped. As you can see on 4:40 he has the same shaved mustache from the beginning and body characteristics as before (he is asian and I think he looks as feminine and masculine as before, but with longer hair and better skin... and this small gynecomastia some guys have).

Which substances would be good for someone like me who wants to try this natural approach? I will first start trying all natural supplements that could lower androgens (testosterone, DHT, androstanediol, androstenedione, dehydroepiandrosterone and androsterone) and also lower estrogen (estradiol makes breast tissue develop). Then, if any secondary female characteristics starts, or I start losing my beard, I will try to target specifics androgens and estrogens levels after research. So... Turmeric? Zinc? Biotin? Any amino acid? I hope any of you guys could help me with this research, as I will also start looking on scholar google as soon as I have more time.

PS: Sorry about possible grammar mistakes. I am from Brazil, so english is not my first language.

"Most incredible hair regrowth I have ever seen in my life"

I already knew which video that was even before I opened it, because it's been going around this site and others attracting a lot of attention.

It's pretty well laid out what he is doing, which are some really hard-hitting chemicals that have potential for nasty side effects ( as you seen). I'm afraid you will not find anything as strong as that, naturally, from a plant chemical or whatever.

It's basically as you guessed. Either you take these heavy chemicals and hope for the best, or you go with the safer natural stuff which is also unlikely to be effective (yeah I realize I'm posting this on a natural hair loss board but what the hell - that's my experience with this). Unfortunately there is yet no effective way to safely deliver these drugs topically without the side effects. That is something that would be a major breakthrough.

yes, you're basically asking for what weve all been searching for for years(over a decade for me).

if we had the answer we'd be millionaires. theres been a few good studies on black tea though. id be inclined to try that. forget saw palmetto, it doesnt work.

Progesterone, maybe, perhaps.

Anything that gets rid of bad estrogen (Xenoestrogen) would also be good.

Anything that helps the thyroid/ adrenals would also be good.

Thanks. Maybe I will try black tee or progesterone later. I want a natural approach to this guy’s treatment. I’ve found that when the video was posted he wrote he was using diane35 as his birth control pill, a very strong one, but from what I could understand he was limiting his doses. The main activity profile of this drug according to wikipedia (I based my next research here but I am not sure if that wiki page is accurate):

"Androgen receptor (AR) antagonist/very weak partial agonist
Progesterone receptor (PR) agonist (Kd = 15 nM; IC50 = 79 nM)
Glucocorticoid receptor (GR) antagonist (Kd = 45 nM; IC50 = 360 nM)
21-hydroxylase, 3β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3β-HSD), 17α-hydroxylase, and 17,20-lyase inhibitor
Pregnane X receptor (PXR) agonist (and thus indirect CYP3A4 and P-glycoprotein inducer)"

As I want to go the most natural as possible, I made my own research and those are the supplements I've found so far. If anybody wants any study that based informations below, just ask, but they are easy to find on google. And if anyone could add anything I am grateful.

DIM (androgen receptor antagonist)
Vitex agnus-castus (increase progesterone)
Cissus quadrangularis (glucocorticoid antagonist)
Red Clover (inhibits: 21-hydroxylase, 3β-HSD)
Resveratrol (reduces CYP12A1 or 17α-hydroxylase/17,20 lyase expression)
St John’s Wort (pregnane X receptor agonist)

I hope with this anti-androgen natural treatment l will not have any of the bad side effects a birth control pill would give and a good hair regrowth. And I hope those supplements are ok together as they are natural. My plan is to go slow with doses and see how my body reacts. Unfortunately, I can't really test this before 2 months from now, because first I will wait more two weeks to be sure those are the supplements I will try and second I will have to import and they take long time to arrive here (brazilian customs service is a mess, they hold everything). But I am really excited to give it a go.

Really excited to throw a lot of money, I see.

"I hope with this anti-androgen natural treatment l will not have any of the bad side effects a birth control pill would give and a good hair regrowth."

OK, to break it down real simple. ANYTHING that reduces androgens in the entire body, by the same amount, is going to give you the same side effects.
It doesn't matter if you do it via finasteride, cyproterone acetate, diane, flutamide, whatever. If it reduces androgens in your entire body then it will leave estrogens and other 'feminizing' hormones unopposed and then... well you will see.

The only 'plus' about these herbal supplements is that they are very unlikely to be anywhere near orders of magnitude as effective as chemicals as cyproterone acetate, so they are unlikely to cause side effects no where near as severe. But, as you might have guessed, that also means they will be less effective for hair loss (if at all).

If you could safely deliver these compounds ONLY to your scalp without them going to the rest of your body, then you would have the potential to achieve what you described. But if you could deliver cyproterone acetate to your scalp without it going systemic, then you wouldn't need to think about using herbal alternatives beacause you could get his regrowth without the side effects. That cannot be accomplished yet.

To sum it up, if you are going to take the androgen-lowering route, then look for things that can be used TOPICALLY.

"OK, to break it down real simple. ANYTHING that reduces androgens in the entire body, by the same amount, is going to give you the same side effects."

Sure! That is why every treatment give same results. Real simple. Our body is no mystery, we know all chemicals involved in everything. I read that you regrow no hair as you said on another post. And I don't agree with your belief that a natural treatment can't be strong enough. As I said before, I don’t care if I have the same result as the guy on the video, I really don’t think that the light case of gynecomastia he had would be a problem if he was not probably messing up with his heart and other organs. Even gynecomastia can be reversed in some cases, even topically and who said I will not try topicals too? Another example that proves what you said is not true is that a lot of trans women doesn’t have sexual problems after having a hormone replacement therapy. And also I’ve found a case on youtube of a girl that would like to be a boy and started a totally natural treatment to boost testosterone and, guess what, she even developed a beard. So, I think it can be about targeting the correct substances, maybe something that is already to be found by today's science.

I also found a post where you talk about the treatment I am looking for:

"For me, everything else fell into the water when I saw the video log of that guy who took Diane35. He had complete regrowth, from being something like NW3 to not being able to see shit from all the bangs hanging over his eyes.

Photographic evidence, of real regrowth, HUGE regrowth. And he didn't get it with boar brushing, hanging upside down on the ceiling, dermarolling or anything like that. He got it by taking estrogen and cyproterone acetate. AKA hormones! Yet even after all this evidence that hormones do play a major role (and can effectively reverse MPB) people are still talking about middle age theories.

Now obviously taking those medications is very dangerous and has serious side effects (like becoming a woman) but it shows you what direction you should be looking into for the cure.”

So, that is what I am doing and I guess you are being really contradictory by criticizing everything, don’t you?

I think we need more research on tobacco smoking. I think you can not find anybody with strong body + faical hair and full head of hair in nonsmokers. There is something what protect you in same degree (maybe dopamine, less stress, increased BAT - (brown adipose tissueLINK). There are lot of effects of tobacco which influence your hormones. Even if you smoke regular cigarettes (Most industrial cigarettes will kill you though).

And no, I have never seen a nonsmoker with full chest hair and full head of hair. If you are interested, check my link.

ninjishal wrote:
Sure! That is why every treatment give same results. Real simple. Our body is no mystery, we know all chemicals involved in everything. I read that you regrow no hair as you said on another post. And I don't agree with your belief that a natural treatment can't be strong enough. As I said before, I don’t care if I have the same result as the guy on the video, I really don’t think that the light case of gynecomastia he had would be a problem if he was not probably messing up with his heart and other organs. Even gynecomastia can be reversed in some cases, even topically and who said I will not try topicals too? Another example that proves what you said is not true is that a lot of trans women doesn’t have sexual problems after having a hormone replacement therapy. And also I’ve found a case on youtube of a girl that would like to be a boy and started a totally natural treatment to boost testosterone and, guess what, she even developed a beard. So, I think it can be about targeting the correct substances, maybe something that is already to be found by today's science.

People have been trying natural things, including natural androgen blockers for a long time now. Nobody reported results worth mentioning. Transgender people as far as I'm aware, aside from killing their androgens replace them with estrogen which you do not plan on doing (if you are also not planning on becoming a woman, I assume). That estrogen takes the place of the male hormones that they so effectively wipe out.

What can I say, you are not afraid of gyno and other feminizing side effects, by all means go for it then. I for one would not touch anything like it with a stick. I have enough problems as is without worrying abour growing tits or something.

I also found a post where you talk about the treatment I am looking for:

"For me, everything else fell into the water when I saw the video log of that guy who took Diane35. He had complete regrowth, from being something like NW3 to not being able to see shit from all the bangs hanging over his eyes.

Photographic evidence, of real regrowth, HUGE regrowth. And he didn't get it with boar brushing, hanging upside down on the ceiling, dermarolling or anything like that. He got it by taking estrogen and cyproterone acetate. AKA hormones! Yet even after all this evidence that hormones do play a major role (and can effectively reverse MPB) people are still talking about middle age theories.

Now obviously taking those medications is very dangerous and has serious side effects (like becoming a woman) but it shows you what direction you should be looking into for the cure.”

So, that is what I am doing and I guess you are being really contradictory by criticizing everything, don’t you?

I wrote exactly what I wrote here. That the video proved to me that hormones are the most effective thing for regrowth and not to pursue bogus 'treatments'. And I came to the same conclusion that I did to here as well - that it is dangerous to take the drugs he took due to their side effect profile. Hardly contradictory.

Well, I wish you luck. Do what you want. If you can come up with something that works without the side effects, all the more power to you.

As I said before, I want this natural treatment mimicking the unhealthy one (just look the focus I gave on specific agonist and antagonist, they look the same). I will take care about side effects, so I am not afraid to try this in my body. I've read that in mtf transgender therapy all body changes are completely reversible until 3-4 months. I even downloaded a male-to-female guide to look for info. lol. Considering I will not continue not even one month more if I start “growing tits”, I am not afraid of irreversible side effects. I am 26 years old, have a really healthy vegan diet (>90% organic and mostly raw) and do exercises. I only use 1ml minoxidil, which I really want to stop, and I am much less bald than the video guy before treatment.

That’s it. I hope I can see more information about going the direction I chose and if the supplements I chose are corroborating or not. My testosterone can't get higher in this beginning.    

Estradiol valerate depot (inter brands), Hydroxyprogesterone caproate depot (inter brands) [Win]
Cyproterone acetate (inter brands) [Fail
pironolactone 25 mg. (inter brands, but made by local) [Fail]

so the anti androgens didnt work for him, funny as most people including me tried spiro and flutamide topically

estradiol and progesterone did work, as well as birth control. i do recall seeing some people trying topical estro.proge but with mitigated success, some of them having bad sheds. maybe there is a correct ratio to all this, just as when women shed a lot of hair after giving birth because of high progesterone, or as birth control pill usually make girl shed their hair (i knew a girl that got one of those sub cutaneous implants for about a year, they start by releasing a big ammount of hormones, and she lost maybe half of her, you clearly see she had some bald spots)

its out of the question to try internally the treatment, as you not only grow breats, and loose muscle amss, but also cant have a working dick. however topicallly there may be something to try

Diane35 is Cyproterone Acetate and did work for him. I think it has to do with the doses and laboratory maybe (was the local brand containing the real product?)


I think the girl you mentioned could be suffering from androgenetic alopecia, maybe that is the reason she had hair transplant and, as she wasn’t targeting the real cause, her hair continued to fall because her hormone levels was on her normal patterns (high androgens). All hair transplant I see get ugly someday.

Eunuchs don’t go bald. That is something even the father of medicine Hippocrates (who wasn’t eunuch and was bald) has noticed. I don’t want to have my testicles removed, but could a botox in testicles (or another treatment, maybe natural topicals) be safe and give same results as the video guy? Maybe botox every 6 months in low dosage? There are people who do botox in underarm to treat excess sweat, but they keep sweating a little. Remove both testicles and put implant (as when a men has cancer in it) could also solve baldness development but is something I would not do as permanent loss of libido is a normal result.

Thomas Boston Corbett was an eunuch, and it wasn't because he wanted to be a woman. If you look his photos, he has a flawless hairline and good facial hairs. The big body change in "castration" is only if you do before puberty. After, it does not seem to affect your facial hair follicles, but it can take all your sexual drive.

Take a look at this:
"The importance of androgens is further illustrated by the following report by Dr James B. Hamilton of the State University Medical Center in New York City in the American Journal of Anatomy. In an identical twin study, one twin who had been castrated before puberty retained all his hair at 40 but his uncastrated twin brother had slowly become bald. When the castrated twin was treated with testosterone (an androgen), he became as bald as his twin brother within six months."

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aja.1000710306/abstract

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jcem-20-10-1309

So, I think I will try the natural supplements with natural topicals on testicles too to reduce body androgens.

ninjishal wrote:Diane35 is Cyproterone Acetate and did work for him. I think it has to do with the doses and laboratory maybe (was the local brand containing the real product?)


I think the girl you mentioned could be suffering from androgenetic alopecia, maybe that is the reason she had hair transplant and, as she wasn’t targeting the real cause, her hair continued to fall because her hormone levels was on her normal patterns (high androgens). All hair transplant I see get ugly someday.

no the girl had an birth control implant, it did not have anything to do with androgenic alopecia.
also it is stated in his youtube video info that diane 35 did not work, where do you see it worked for him ?

im still thinking about topical route for this, anyone want to chime in on some ideas ?

Girl? Birth control implant? What?

He wrote before on video:

"Update 2014 June : I stopped Ketoconazole and replace Diane35 with Sucee. But double dose. This is full 5 years of treatment. And I going the treatment plan"

ninjishal wrote:Girl? Birth control implant? What?

He wrote before on video:

"Update 2014 June : I stopped Ketoconazole and replace Diane35 with Sucee. But double dose. This is full 5 years of treatment. And I going the treatment plan"

ok i see, well its a pity no one wants to discuss topicals concerning this ...

OP,

It seems to be that you're saying you're willing to deal with all of the same sides as he's dealing with. That begs the question: Why not use the drugs then? The premise for a natural approach is just that: avoiding the negative side effects of drugs. If you find them tolerable, then what is deterring you from doing exactly what he did?

The truth of the matter is there are no "natural" protocols or nutritional supplements that are going to have effects even close to what he experienced. That's all there is to it

102,

I said which effects I want to avoid, can't do anything if you didn't understand. It's never the same to use natural supplements that could reverse baldness and use diane 35 which will potentially do harm to your organs and some you can never think of. It's just poisonous. I also said I want to avoid growing breast, haven't you read? I'm very happy I've found great news about the subject I'm researching but I don't want to share here because I feel like this topic is being too much "watched" but no one responds and some people come with big interpretative issues I don't want to take care of. I changed about half of the supplements I was going to use first, added others, and some seems to be really good. If anyone wants to know just send me a private message showing genuine interest and I will help you. Maybe soon I will delete this topic too so if you liked save the good informations. That's it, no more to add unless somebody join the club with real interest or helping me find more good supplements about what I wrote too.

"The truth of the matter is there are no "natural" protocols or nutritional supplements that are going to have effects even close to what he experienced. That's all there is to it" - Not with the herbs I've found. But you can live your whole life believing I am not telling the truth. Maybe I'm a illuminatti or another government agent behind ebola spread or those things some people here are believing. lol. Bye!

if avoiding growing breasts is your only worry, just take some tamoxifene or some raloxifene, there are binding to the nipple area and prevent formation of gyno ( and can reverse it ) even with high estrogen, contrary to other Aromatase inhibitors that just decrease estrogen levels

I certainly tend to think that the main key to solving MPB will come in the hormone arena. Obviously pinpointing this phenomenon has escaped everyone to date, aside from extreme measures (castration, female side effects, etc)...
I don't have the mental fortitude to grasp the entire hormone picture as it relates to MPB, but casual observations constantly bother me:

MPB is a MALE problem, females rarely encounter similar pattern lose issues. Ok, so logically, one would point their finger at Testosterone, or a derivative (DHT) thereof that is much more pronounced in men than women, being the culprit for MPB...
But understanding the interplay of our hormones is the real head scratcher... I don't understand how I (and so many others) can have such high Test levels as teenagers/early 20s and still rock a full head of hair. How have we not pin pointed the hormonal flux and change that starts to occur with the hormones after this time - which subsequently coincides with the start of MPB for several of us. If anything, I feel like my T levels have dropped over the last few years, and my hair continues to go. Yea maybe its the DHT increase and that I simply have follicles that are genetically pre-disposed to shutting down, wherein others I know have receptors in their folicles that aren't affected.
It also just baffles me that you can have two, say 35 year old males, both healthy and in good shape with similar hormone profiles, but yet one is completely bald and the other is not, so obviously on top of it all, there seems to be the additional factor of how the follicles on the top of the scalp handle and adjust to male hormones...
Ugh.... just needed to vent.
My regimen has included many things from this site over the years (internal and external), including massage/DT for nearly a year. I continue to lose the fight via diffuse thinning... sadly I've started looking into HT options.

He went NW3 to NW1 in less than 12 months on nothing but birth control pills. They contain estrogen (ethinyl estradiol) and a synthetic progestin.

Make a topical estrogen that doesn't go systemic and you solved MPB.