Is curcumin an adaptogenic anti-androgen or just a pure anti-androgen (inhibits regardless of body chemisty). CS if you could shed some light

Thanks in advance!

Curcumin it is an AR receptor modulator, it also modulates estrogen receptors.

By modulator, Im not sure what you mean.

Could your use of modulator also be interpreted as adaptogenic?

CS, could you elaborate a bit further on this?

Are you saying curcumin is adaptogenic in its modulation of androgen receptors? Or does it decrease androgen receptor expression regardless of body chemistry?

Thanks much!


*PS: The reason I ask is because Im taking curcumin to help with nerve inflammation in my left hand (also for hair benefits) and I dont believe Ive noticed effects on libido.. Yet (only been 3 weeks).. But I have read many personal accounts from people who say curcumin knocked out there libido and gave them symptoms of ED. So of course this has me concerned..

sizzlinghairs - Curcumin is one of those supplements that if a drug could do it, it would be a wonder drug.

What curcumin does for the body could fill up a dictionary it seems. It's loaded with benefits.

A lot of things can affect libido, and if curcumin had anything to do with that (negatively), I would suspect detoxification. The body isn't "interested" in sex if it is engaging in a repair processes--consider that temporary. And in terms of curcumin's effect on the androgen receptor, it is quite mild, it's not going to take that away. In fact, it also affects the estrogen receptor as well.

In fact, because curcumin modulates (balances) neurotransmitters, it is more effective than SSRI drugs for depression/mood disorders. Because SSRI's negatively effect libido, curcumin makes a lot more sense.

Curcumin reduces inflammation. What causes a loss in testosterone?  Often it is inflammation.

Take a look at this abstract:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22548787

J Sex Med. 2012 Jul;9(7):1815-33. doi: 10.1111/j.1743-6109.2012.02741.x. Epub 2012 Apr 30.
Effects of a water-soluble curcumin protein conjugate vs. pure curcumin in a diabetic model of erectile dysfunction.
Abdel Aziz MT1, Motawi T, Rezq A, Mostafa T, Fouad HH, Ahmed HH, Rashed L, Sabry D, Senbel A, Al-Malki A, El-Shafiey R.
Author information
Abstract
INTRODUCTION:
Curcumin is involved in erectile signaling via elevation of cyclic guanosine monophosphate (cGMP).
AIM:
Assessment of the effects of water-soluble curcumin in erectile dysfunction (ED).
METHODS:
One hundred twenty male white albino rats were divided into: 1st and 2nd control groups with or without administration of Zinc protoporphyrin (ZnPP), 3rd and 4th diabetic groups with or without ZnPP, 5th diabetic group on single oral dose of pure curcumin, 6th diabetic group on pure curcumin administered daily for 12 weeks, 7th and 8th diabetic groups on single dose of water-soluble curcumin administered with or without ZnPP, 9th and 10th diabetic groups on water-soluble curcumin administered daily for 12 weeks with or without ZnPP. All curcumin dosage schedules were administered after induction of diabetes.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
Quantitative gene expression of endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS), neuronal NOS (nNOS), inducible NOS (iNOS), heme oxygenase-1 (HO-1), nuclear transcription factor-erythroid2 (Nrf2), NF-Кβ, and p38. Cavernous tissue levels of HO and NOS enzyme activities, cGMP and intracavernosal pressure (ICP).
RESULTS:
Twelve weeks after induction of diabetes, ED was confirmed by the significant decrease in ICP. There was a significant decrease in cGMP, NOS, HO enzymes, a significant decrease in eNOS, nNOS, HO-1 genes and a significant elevation of NF-Кβ, p38, iNOS genes. Administration of pure curcumin or its water-soluble conjugate led to a significant elevation in ICP, cGMP levels, a significant increase in HO-1 and NOS enzymes, a significant increase in eNOS, nNOS, HO-1, and Nrf2 genes, and a significant decrease in NF-Кβ, p38, and iNOS genes. Water-soluble curcumin showed significant superiority and more prolonged duration of action. Repeated doses regimens were superior to single dose regimen. Administration of ZnPP significantly reduced HO enzyme, cGMP, ICP/ mean arterial pressure (MAP), HO-1 genes in diabetic groups.
CONCLUSION:
Water-soluble curcumin could enhance erectile function with more effectiveness and with more prolonged duration of action.

Or this one:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22930655

How it affects the androgen receptor is complicated. Most importantly, it protects against the damage of estrogen and its many forms in environment, such as bisphenol-A.

Thanks for your extensive and informative reply CS.

What you're saying does make sense and those studies help in supporting that.

The reports I heard of people experiencing ED and libido loss from curcumin, the doses being used were from 3-400mg to 1000mg/day.

Could it have been this was just too much curcumin for their chemistry and it was having a flooding effect on their androgen receptors? So basically at lower levels it has a balancing effect, whereas at higher levels there becomes a chance at throwing things off balance?

Because right now @ 350mg root per pill w/ 80mg curcumin I seem fine so far.

Thanks again as always!

sizzlinghairs - There's no way to be certain. It is often said that 90% of libido problems is psychological.

Besides that, enzymes which curcumin helps improve, particularly in a group who is physically most subject to libido problems diabetics with ED; endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS), neuronal NOS (nNOS), inducible NOS (iNOS), heme oxygenase-1 (HO-1), really casts doubt over the claim that curcumin (even in larger doses) would cause a problem.

Thanks again.

Yeah those enzymes you speak of mainly have to do with the actual physical aspect of ED, correct? Im definitely curious how much those higher (or lower) levels of curcumin effect the actual androgen receptors. I know there is that one rat study that shows an estrogenizing effect. But I havent seen any studies done on humans that I know of.

sizzlinghairs wrote:Thanks again.

Yeah those enzymes you speak of mainly have to do with the actual physical aspect of ED, correct? Im definitely curious how much those higher (or lower) levels of curcumin effect the actual androgen receptors. I know there is that one rat study that shows an estrogenizing effect. But I havent seen any studies done on humans that I know of.

When DHT is suppressed using a drug such as finasteride, it cuts off the ability to produce nitric oxide/NO (which means less ability to perform an erection). However, curcumin doesn't affect the formation of NO negatively. This is why it's not a problem.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24831732

"Curcumin modulates miR-19/PTEN/AKT/p53 axis to exhibit its protective effects against BPA-associated breast cancer"

Or said more to the point: Curcumin protects against Bisphenol-A induced/stimulated breast cancer. In this area, it is anti-estrogen.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24184124

Curcumin helps protect against prostate cancer by interacting with estrogen receptor beta (ERβ).