Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

sizzlinghairs Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:34 am

My average is usually around 380-420. Last one was 396. (was not taken morning which I know is important). Im 31 and in pretty good health. I do have a left sided vericocele which doctors say can effect fertility but not usually testosterone..

My question, is it possible this is my body's normal and optimal level? I know for my age the norm is considered like 600+ but was wondering if maybe some men are just different?

*edit: I know zinc can help, what is the highest safe daily range I could take?

AS54 Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:14 am

I've been dealing with the issue of a low baseline testosterone for a while now. Your levels are below average for your age, but in the medical community, they're going to be more concerned with the level of free (biologically available) testosterone. In that model, your absolute levels aren't as important, so long as what's free to actually act is statistically normal. I agree with that outlook, to a degree.

What it ends up coming down to is how you feel. If you're concern is the fact the numbers are low, but you feel relatively fine (okay motivation, okay energy levels, libido and erection are strong), then I wouldn't worry about your levels at all.

What became a problem in my case was that my total testosterone was very low, but my free fraction was high-normal (on account of almost non-existent SHBG). So more than likely this was a negative feedback from the higher free fraction. BUT, I still felt like shit. How do I know that? Because I used drugs to increase my total testosterone up to close to 600 and I felt incredible. I felt like I did before having the health problems I've been dealing with.

So if you go to complain about your levels, what will happen is they will try to look for every other endocrine possibility for low testosterone: pituitary problems/low gonadotropins (secondary hypo), direct problems with the testicles (primary hypo), cortisol, sleep apnea, estrogen/aromatase. [This is assuming you are seeing a doctor who isn't the kind of person to just start injecting you with test based on labs alone]. If they can't find a hormonal answer for your issue, they'll tell you to exercise and lose weight.

I had to find a doctor who would listen to the simple fact that I didn't fit the model, who thought the way I felt was more important than whether I fit the mold or not. The one thing she wanted was some imaging of the pituitary before she began TRT, but she said that at the end of the day, if I felt better that it was probably worth it. Now there are concerns with TRT, ones you should get familiar with. It isn't "all good". There are issues that can come up. But for me, the way I feel from day-to-day has got to be the deciding factor. If I thought I could live a happy life without getting these levels up, I wouldn't do TRT.

sanderson Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:30 pm

http://www.boost-your-low-testosterone.com/

AS54 Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:10 am

I am going to begin testosterone replacement this coming Monday. I've got anastrozole on the way, and will be using it to control aromatization.

As of last labs (2/4/2014):

Total Test - 211 ng/dl
Estradiol - 20 pg/ml

Will update as I track the progress. If the strategy works properly, hopefully I'll get the total test closer to 500 and keep estrogen in the 20-40 range. Overall its an experiment so maybe some useful information will come out of it.

sizzlinghairs Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:31 am

Thanks AS54 for the detailed reply. I think I might work with my doctor to explore other reasons that could be causing Low T like you mentioned...

I feel ok energy/motivation wise, but my libido seems to have dipped.. Maybe this level or a bit higher is natural for my body, maybe not..

Either, I will investigate more..

*thank you sanderson for the link

NYJets Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:22 pm

you guys are making me want to get test labs. Being a student blows.

YAER Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:38 pm

AS54 wrote:I am going to begin testosterone replacement this coming Monday. I've got anastrozole on the way, and will be using it to control aromatization.

As of last labs (2/4/2014):

Total Test - 211 ng/dl
Estradiol - 20 pg/ml

Will update as I track the progress. If the strategy works properly, hopefully I'll get the total test closer to 500 and keep estrogen in the 20-40 range. Overall its an experiment so maybe some useful information will come out of it.

Im completely against hormone therapy. I told you before im sure u have a deficiency in vitamin d. The least u could do is start supplemening with 10,000iu of vit d daily and look out for improvements in testo as it is the single most crucial factor for testo. Please avoid testo replacement for now, it will cause havoc to ur whole system, the body is very smart and this could be very detrimental to you, please consider postponing the hormones for 3 weeks and monitor ur response from the vitamin d3. Good luck.

droddy Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:22 am

Thyroid hormone is needed for the synthesis of sex hormones, such as testosterone. Vitamin and adequate cholesterol are needed, too.

sizzlinghairs Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:29 am

Well Ive been doing some research and there have been a number of studies implicating varicoceles as direct culprits regarding low T.

Damnit man, this fukin thing, I really dont want to have to get a surgery involving cutting my testicle veins. I need to do research on natural methods of curing a varicocele, although many say surgery is the only option. LOVELY. All ears if anyone has any suggestions for getting rid of a varicocele naturally...

droddy Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:50 am

sizzlinghairs wrote:Well Ive been doing some research and there have been a number of studies implicating varicoceles as direct culprits regarding low T.

Damnit man, this fukin thing, I really dont want to have to get a surgery involving cutting my testicle veins. I need to do research on natural methods of curing a varicocele, although many say surgery is the only option. LOVELY. All ears if anyone has any suggestions for getting rid of a varicocele naturally...

Why don't you invest in some basic hormone tests before jumping to any conclusions?

sizzlinghairs Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:06 pm

I shall, but Im pretty sure the varicocele is the culprit.

luiscsilva Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:53 am

I registered just to say I have varicocele on BOTH testicles, and my test was 710, tested two weeks ago, and I wasnt feeling particularly snappy that day.

Also, varicocele is a term urologists use to loosely describe the situation, but a true varicose is almost impossible to happen there. Read carefully how I managed to pretty much make them disappear this week:

-Make sure your underwear is properly supporting, I found out I wasnt wearing my boxer briefs in the right place.
- Visit a therapist who will work on your psoas. My urologist told me this and he was damm right, usually too much psoas shortening (sitting all the time, psoas taking over during weightlifting etc), will create congestions that affect the testicles. I went to an osteopath, he worked my psoas to total relaxation and did some hip alignment. I felt different leaving the place, more confident. To my surprise when I got home and went to the bathroom, varicocele was pretty much gone and penis veins were less proeminent. I also got morning wood the next day, something I very VERY rarely ever got

TL;DR: Varicocele does not affect testosterone unless it's a super severe case, and if it was, you would have noticed by now

sizzlinghairs Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:47 am

Luis, thanks so much for your post. Very informative. I will look into your suggestions.

Yeah in my case, it's on the left, is palpable, but rarely painful. Just that bag of worms feeling, but I wouldn't say it's "super severe"

sanderson Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:22 pm

sizzlinghairs wrote:Well Ive been doing some research and there have been a number of studies implicating varicoceles as direct culprits regarding low T.

Damnit man, this fukin thing, I really dont want to have to get a surgery involving cutting my testicle veins. I need to do research on natural methods of curing a varicocele, although many say surgery is the only option. LOVELY. All ears if anyone has any suggestions for getting rid of a varicocele naturally...

yeah don't get the surgery on it. i've read a few different reports on it as i used to have one, i still have it a little i think, but it is not nearly as bad as it used to be. two theories on it are the whole masturbation/bad pelvic floor muscle. so stop all masturbation for around 30 days and do yoga a couple times a week if you want to take that route. i did this extensively and i think it helped me a lot. next, i actually noticed mine popped up a few days ago, but i found once i ate some super nutrional food, it went away. so oysters are what i ate and noticed it went down. perhaps liver could help also as i had that a few days ago. i am following the whole peat/roddy diet now and that's why i had those.

definetely do the the nofap/yoga thing though before you elect to do surgery.. i read on actionlove that he said the surgery is not really a good thing and unnecessary.. better to do that before you do the surgery though for sure.

funny how all these things intertwine.. im sure the whole puzzle will be solved.. in probably 300 or 400 years to be honest

AS54 Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:48 am

If its any help, any pain related to my varicocele went away completely after getting my estrogen under control.

champ Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:18 pm

I agree with droddy and YAER. If you haven't tried their suggestions, do those please.

Also, quite unpopular I know, give no sex/ejac a go for a few weeks/one month. A ton of martial artists/boxers do it, so it's worth a try Razz

sanderson Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:34 pm

i recently found this thread and thought this was insane. this guy literally maxed out his testosterone.. like he hit the max the test would hit. he did ray peat + some other combos that worked wonders. i'm planning on giving this a go in about a month or two, but thought this was insane.

so far ray peat/danny roddy shit has changed me around 360 degrees. this guy knows his shit.. check this out:

After about 2 years of almost incessant researching and reading Peat's books, articles, and interviews I nailed (pun intended) a formula that works wonders for me. The explanation is simple - focus on diet and supplements that reduce prolactin, reduce serotonin, reduce estrogen, increase dopamine, increase testosterone, lower cortisol. So, my ingredients are as follows:

1. About 140g of protein daily in divided doses. My protein is a mix I make. I ordered some pure whey, pure casein, and pure gelatin powder. Both the whey and casein I order say on the label they have no added tryptophan and cysteine, which is important because most commercial whey and casein do have those two amino acids added on top of what is naturally present in the protein itself. The label also lists the amount of each amino acid in 100g of protein and both tryptophan and cystein are very low. I make a mixture of about 70g that I take in the morning and evening for a total of 140g. The mixture is as follows: 20g whey, 20g casein, 30g gelatin. I mix that powder dry and then use a tablespoon to ingest it and chase down with some orange juice.
2. Supplements: vitamin E (lowers both prolactin and estrogen), zinc (lowers both prolactin and estrogen), vitamin B6 (lowers prolactin and in old studies from the 1970s seems to be acting as an agonist of dopamine "receptors", BCAA (compete with tryptophan for transport into the brain so taking them lowers serotonin to achieve an effect similar to that magical substance RP mentions called P-chloro-phenylalanine), Magnesium (improves excretion of estrogen from the body). Dosage: 30mg zinc (as zinc gluconate), 5 mg B6 (pyridoxine hydrochloride), 2000mg mixed tocoherols (not a typo - yes I mean 2000mg and not 2000IU), 3500mg BCAA.
The studies on the effects of tocopherol, zinc, and B6 on estrogen, prolactin, etc I already posted in my other posts. Here are the studies on BCAA depleting serotonin, and if combined with phenylalanine and tyrosine (from the 140g of protein) increasing dopamine:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22677921
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11510866
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23249694
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21980992
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7016402
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10779700
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1144587/
http://intl-physiologyonline.physiology ... 5/260.full
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/112/9/1688.full.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1353076/

RESULTS: OH MY GOOD HOLLY GAWD OF THIS FAIR WORLD!!!

Out of respect for the women in this forum I won't go into details publicly, but try to remember your high school days and you'll get some idea:-)
I know RP mentioned that insatiable desire could be a symptom of high estrogen, but this was different. Not insatiable, rather extremely intense and focused. I can't share more without being graphic...
Not to mention that I did blood tests on myself. Total testosterone was above 1500ng/dl, which is the highest the lab equipment would measure. So mine was higher but they could not determine how high. A level of 900ng/dl is consdiered very high and the upper limit for modern males. I am not sure I'd recommend this state of affairs as something to be maintained long term. I just did it as an experiment that what I learned from Peat and my other sources does work as intended.

Anyways, if you have specific questions just ask.

http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=477&sid=cd70f86e784e8698448ba1e61d0719e9&start=10#p22293

honestly not sure how safe this is long term.. anyone have any commends? what if you were to do this long term, would this have negative consequences of too high test?

sizzlinghairs Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:08 am

hmm, lowering serotonin increases test?

Dont like the sound of that at all.. I already have a tendency towards depression and I am currently on a low dose SSRI and it helps very much. My goal is to get off of it by the end of this year for sure, but currently, the positives definitely outweigh the negatives.

I wonder how important lowering serotonin is.. First Ive heard about that playing a role in increasing test.

sanderson Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:33 pm

sizzlinghairs wrote:hmm, lowering serotonin increases test?

Dont like the sound of that at all.. I already have a tendency towards depression and I am currently on a low dose SSRI and it helps very much. My goal is to get off of it by the end of this year for sure, but currently, the positives definitely outweigh the negatives.

I wonder how important lowering serotonin is.. First Ive heard about that playing a role in increasing test.

yeah man, it's an interesting protocol. i mean, if the dude is legit, which i don't think he would be lieing but who knows, he got the blood test and it says the high results. that's honestly pretty shocking considering his regimen is basically supplements and went OVER the T range. i haven't seen anything like this before.. probably one of the best. i am going to give this a try once my paycheck goes in the bank.

i'm going to try to find out where he gets his vitamin E from. he says 2000mg, i have tocosorb here, says it only has 375mg per pill. that would be 5/day, but there is only 30 per bottle, can get pricey. the only other thing I can see having a major impact here is the BCAA as i'm not too familar with it. i think that and the vit E, combined with his other suggestions, are making the biggest changes. but damn.. that is a lot of vit E.

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Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

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Re: Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

Re: Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

Re: Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

Re: Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

Re: Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

Re: Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

Re: Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

Re: Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

Re: Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

Re: Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

Re: Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

Re: Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

Re: Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

Re: Some questions about my average testosterone results on blood tests

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