My own topical - your opinions

Hi everyone.

I've been reading this forum for some time and I decided to make my own topical that I'll apply just before going to bed.

Here is my idea:

coconut oil (maybe milk would be better?) - 1 tablespoon
linseed oil - 1 tablespoon
saw palmetto - 2 capsules 450 mg
nettle (25 mg) & horsetail extract (75mg) - 1 capsule
apple extract - 1 teaspoon

What do you think? Do you think I should add/remove something from the list? Do you have any experience with any mentioned above?

Cheers

irfoc wrote:Hi everyone.

I've been reading this forum for some time and I decided to make my own topical that I'll apply just before going to bed.

Here is my idea:

coconut oil (maybe milk would be better?) - 1 tablespoon
linseed oil - 1 tablespoon
saw palmetto - 2 capsules 450 mg
nettle (25 mg) & horsetail extract (75mg) - 1 capsule
apple extract - 1 teaspoon

What do you think? Do you think I should add/remove something from the list? Do you have any experience with any mentioned above?

Cheers

Hello and welcome to the board. A topical is great but do you plan on scalp massaging? Dermaroller? etc....

I'm not too sure what makes topicals effective, except that you want something that deals with inflammation, so can't really comment there. Those look like good ingredients.

But I agree with Bob - using a topical in conjunction with a manual (preferably derma rolling) will be way more effective for you.

Some time ago I read on other board about guy, who made a similar topical:

hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=99275

and I tought that I will try to make something similar.



Of course, I'm currently doing several things to fight my hairloss.
Here is my regime:

1. No masturbation/no porn/no sex/not even thinking about these things.
I know that this topic is controversial and it was discussed 1000 times, but for me it makes an ESSENTIAL change. My scalp is no longer oily and my hair is not so greasy as before and believe me - it was "soaked with oil" every evening. Totally disguisting. And my scalp was itchy as hell.

Less androgens and generally hormonal balance -> less sebum
+
less DHT -> less hair falling
+
no important nutrients loss with semen

And just after 1 month of abstinence I feel soooo great, full of energy, optimistic. I can describe more advantages of nofap, if you want. Not only my hair is in far better condition. After some time you realise how pathetic is slouching in front of your pc in a dark room with your stick in hand.
F*** all this obsession about sex that we can see today. It's sick. And if any doctor tells you that fapping is "completely healthy", he is an idiot or he is lying. Now doctors do not treat their patients - they sell medicines. They are not educated to heal you with natural and effective methods, but to be efficient salesmen of the pharma industry. Look how lazy and sleepy you become during afterfap. Your brain is covered with fog, it's hard to concertrate and you can hardly remember a bigger piece of information.

With each day of abstinence I feel better and better. YOU JUST NEED TO BE PATIENT WITH THAT and with any regime you are trying.

2. Scalp massage every morning and every evening for 5 minutes.
My scalp was veeery tight 2 weeks ago and now it's almost completely loose. I don't use any magician technique that I bought for 666$ - just make an amateur scalp massage
Wash your hands with soap before you start a massage. Then bend at the waist, so blood flows to your head. Massage scalp and the areas that you find tight for 3-4 minutes and then stay in the same position for the next 3 minutes.

3. Diet - no sweets, no cigarettes, no alcohol etc., but that's pretty obvious.
Diary: only kefir or natural yoghurt. I'm a vegetarian. My diet is not 100% raw and I don't thing that it would be necessary. I just focus on eating small, home-made meals.
Huge meals -> much blood goes to your stomach from other parts of your body
I don't drink coffee or green tea, because they contain caffeine that affects hormonal balance and elutes iron from body.
I drink nettle root or horsetail tea insted. 1 cup every morning on empty stomach and one more during a day.
I drink at least 1,5l of mineral water every day. Eating fresh garlic every day is also very good.

4. Shampoo.
I use some shampoo for babies that doesn't contain SLS or SLES. I can't afford 100% organic shampoo, because they're about 4-5 times more expensive, but that's not problem for me.

5. Supplements.
Zinc 10mg x 1
Nettle root and horsetail extract x 1
Complex of vit. B x 1 day

but I'll only keep nettle root and horsetail extract.


Effects:
I think it's a bit too early to say something, but what I achieved so far:

• my hair is 80% less greasy
  
• loose scalp with pretty normal level of sebum
  
• hair looks more healthier (density, thickness) - not very impressive change, but noticable
  
• hair loss really dropped
  

What I'm going to add:
1. 150 ml of wheatgrass juice every day. I'm currently seeding some wheatgrass at home. (to promote hair regrowth)
Here is some success story with it:
hairloss-reversible.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=219
2. Boar bristle brush (because ppl say that it greatly improves blood flow in scalp; thanks hiilikeyourbeard)
3. topical mentioned above applied before going to bed. (to promote hair regrowth)



What do you think, guys?
Feel free to ask about anything. As we all want to cure ourselves, I'm not going act a stubborn idiot and argue that my regime is the best in the world. I base on a few success stories that I found on the net and I'm trying to combine the solutions/ideas to achieve even faster/better results.

I'll be offline for a few days, so please be patient, if you pm me or post something here

English is not my native language, so please forgive me all mistakes.

Take care!

Just to encourage you man, if your hair and scalp are feeling healthier, they probably are and you're onto a good thing. I still say that adding derma rolling once a week would be a very easy way to add some wallop to your regimen. Then again, it's about sticking with it for the long haul, so you should focus on what you can maintain without too much difficulty.

Hey irfoc,

Welcome. Its great to hear you are seeing improvements. I'll agree with the above...if you are noticing an improvement in either hair quality or quantity, and its consistent, i.e. the improvement isn't apparent one day to disappear the next, then you are on a good path.

As far as your topical, however, I'm not sure that some of those ingredients would absorb. Perhaps a saw palmetto oil, but I am fairly certain that emptying the crude herb from the capsules into a topical and applying it isn't going to do you much good. The fragments just won't be small enough to absorb. If those are products you'd like to try, I'd recommend the oral route. But there are other possibilities such as making a tincture and then applying it, or again, an oil from those plants.

Good luck with whatever you try though and keep us posted.

I can't comment much on the topical because I haven't tried anything like it.

Although I can say that I've been doing some scalp massages, no specific techniques, and doing some headstands(like 5 - 10 min a day) for the past few weeks and I've noticed a slight improvement on overall quality of my hair. Seems a bit more dense.

I tried no fap during the summer only for a month but I haven't noticed an improvement in regards to my hair.
I think if you are single and don't have a focal point to channel your creative impulses into(work, hobby etc), fapping becomes unavoidable. Because after a while the only thing you can think of becomes sex and it starts interfering with everything else.
I heard medidation helps but I was never the medidation type.

Nettle root increase DHT. This is one f the only supplement i never understood why it seems beneficial for prostate..

Shinobi wrote:Nettle root increase DHT. This is one f the only supplement i never understood why it seems beneficial for prostate..

Where did you get that information from?



Thank you guys for all kind words.

AS54 wrote:I am fairly certain that emptying the crude herb from the capsules into a topical and applying it isn't going to do you much good.

Yeah, I thought the same, but...
hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=99275
I've posted that link in the first message. I am not able to paste full links, as I am a new member with few posts.

Nuada wrote:I tried no fap during the summer only for a month but I haven't noticed an improvement in regards to my hair.
I think if you are single and don't have a focal point to channel your creative impulses into(work, hobby etc), fapping becomes unavoidable. Because after a while the only thing you can think of becomes sex and it starts interfering with everything else.

Different things work for different ppl, but I think 1 month is just too short. Think about it: let's say that you were fapping 2 times a week for about 5 years. Would you say that just after one month that long-lasting hormonal imbalance will disappear?

I would not use coconut oil. Breeds demodex...

I would instead use mustard seed extract in water. Will Gaunitz knows most about this - contact him.

Also contact dr Richard loyd (rife) and do the saliva test....

M

irfoc wrote:

Shinobi wrote:Nettle root increase DHT. This is one f the only supplement i never understood why it seems beneficial for prostate..

Where did you get that information from?

Planta Med. 1997 Dec;63(6):529-32.
Lignans from the roots of Urtica dioica and their metabolites bind to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG).

+ a forum member who showed his before after test result using beelt root.

Really I would love if AS or CS experts would study this herb and this stuff closer. I dont know why but I really feel this herb is very potent

I believe Shinobi is right. I haven't dedicated much time to looking at this herb. It has its ups and downs in the bodybuilding community, and honestly, people tend to underscore the knowledge that comes from that domain. The fundamental competition they experience has made a virtual science out of hormonal manipulation that we can take a lot from. Plus there are tons of user experiences and product reviews out there to corroborate claims. The extent of my knowledge on the hormonal effects of Nettle is that it does increase free fraction of testosterone, which could open up the environment for increased DHT, estrogen, or both depending on the individual.

I will look into the plant some more, but given its uses in that community and going only on that, I don't think it is necessarily a product suitable for our situation here at the forum. Increasing unbound testosterone isn't our number one priority haha.

AS54 wrote:I believe Shinobi is right. I haven't dedicated much time to looking at this herb. It has its ups and downs in the bodybuilding community, and honestly, people tend to underscore the knowledge that comes from that domain. The fundamental competition they experience has made a virtual science out of hormonal manipulation that we can take a lot from. Plus there are tons of user experiences and product reviews out there to corroborate claims. The extent of my knowledge on the hormonal effects of Nettle is that it does increase free fraction of testosterone, which could open up the environment for increased DHT, estrogen, or both depending on the individual.

I will look into the plant some more, but given its uses in that community and going only on that, I don't think it is necessarily a product suitable for our situation here at the forum. Increasing unbound testosterone isn't our number one priority haha.

Actually in France it's the herb number one to cure hair loss. But I still dont understand why since we should rather want in our theory already discussed here: a bind of dht to SHBG with high SHBG amount.. So if nettle do the exact opposite, why this should help ?

It's very important since i think we miss an important link here. The theory saying young mens with low shbg have hair loss but older ones have greater and also have hair loss show limits

I've decided to check nettle root again after you posted all that info...

All sources say that nettle root:

• inhibits 5-alpha-reductase (but not very strong)
  
• inhibits aromatase
  
• lowers SHBG, because nettle root enzymes interact with SHBG

Very interesting facts here:
peaktestosterone.com/Free_Testosterone_SHBG.aspx

BUT
(after you read, what's in the link)
still there is a question:

Which effect is stronger:
1. inhibition of DHT and aromatase
or
2. lowering of SHBG

If 1., then it's very good, because:
lower SHBG -> more free testosterone -> significant 5-alpha-reductase and aromatase inhibition -> more free testosterone that is not converted to DHT (???)
If 2., then it's bad, because in that case lower SHBG -> more free testosterone -> weak 5-alpha-reductase and aromatase inhibition -> eventually more free testosterone that is converted to DHT

I'd say that option 1. is right, when we're talking about nettle root, because sooo many sources say that it really helps with BHP and hair loss.

Anyway, it occurs that, when you're young and your body produce loads of androgens (and you have much free testosterone), you should raise SHBG, so it will bind free testosterone surplus -> less free testosterone that can be converted to DHT

When you are older and your body produces less androgens, you should lower your SHBG, so that more testosterone remains unbind (=remains free).

Am I right with all that stuff? What are your ideas?

Interesting points brought up here.

I think the above is absolutely a correct way of thinking about it. If the 5-ar inhibition is strong enough such that it prevents unbound testosterone from converting, while boosting free fraction of test, it would have all kinds of benefits, obviously being pro-hair as well.

But the fact is we'd have to know just how potent that inhibition was. Any information about that is vital.

Because, as was already suggested, if we're increasing unbound test without also inhibiting the conversion enzymes, there will be an increase in DHT also. Given that low SHBG and high free-T are hallmarks of premature baldness, this would be adding fuel to a fire already burning out of control.

But the point that nettle is recognized internationally as a hair loss remedy, the huge amount of user experience there does make this a worthwhile point. If nettle was having the pro-loss effects, logically we'd expect reports of this all over the place. The fact it is still largely touted as a pro-growth remedy, does suggest something. Unfortunately, I'd have to see some real data though on its 5-ar inhibition before I was convinced.

And even then, simple 5-ar inhibition can be achieved with commonly prescribed drugs. While it does help maintain hair, it does a whole bunch of things we don't want too.

See link below:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0944711396800250

In this study they showed that nettle had an ED50 of 14 mg/ml. It had effects after 12 mg/ml.

Correct me if I"m wrong, but if we use the BAC approach of .01 g/ml = 1% BAC,

then we'd have to have around 1% blood content of the nettle extract. That's a very high concentration.

Here's an interesting post:
hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/30018-How-to-maximize-result-of-DHT-blockers-and-deny-side-effects

maybe you've seen it before, but I thought I'll share.

AS54 wrote:Because, as was already suggested, if we're increasing unbound test without also inhibiting the conversion enzymes, there will be an increase in DHT also. Given that low SHBG and high free-T are hallmarks of premature baldness, this would be adding fuel to a fire already burning out of control.

But the point that nettle is recognized internationally as a hair loss remedy, the huge amount of user experience there does make this a worthwhile point. If nettle was having the pro-loss effects, logically we'd expect reports of this all over the place. The fact it is still largely touted as a pro-growth remedy, does suggest something. Unfortunately, I'd have to see some real data though on its 5-ar inhibition before I was convinced.

Shinobi wrote:Actually in France it's the herb number one to cure hair loss. But I still dont understand why since we should rather want in our theory already discussed here: a bind of dht to SHBG with high SHBG amount.. So if nettle do the exact opposite, why this should help ?

Yup, that is the mystery of nettle root, but I have no idea how it can be explained... Maybe we should analyse the difference between oral and topical use of nettle root?

I've just googled "nettle root hair regrowth" and found that most ppl, who succeed, use Saw Palmetto + nettle root extract. I don't know how to explain that either. Any ideas?
Nettle root (as a tea or exctract) alone helps about 30-40% ppl, the rest see no difference.

Thanks guys to had a look into this.

Nettle contain 2 kinds of activ ingredient: beta sitosterol (whick block 5AR receptors) and lignanes which binds to SHBG

Actually, more than the nettle extract, we should focus on the SHBG. At this day do we want our DHT bind to SHBG or not ? I know we think that bounded DHT means not agressiv for hair but if we was wrong ? Maybe it is the opposite ?

I tried nettle few times back, and CS advised to use lignancs. I think effect are pretty similar

A few days ago I noticed some 1 cm blonde strands at the height of my hairline. Could these be first symptoms of regrowth? To be honest, it was the first time I've ever examined my hairline, so I can't say for how long these strands are there.
Lately I was pretty busy, so I haven't prepared my topical yet, but I'll make it and start using on Tuesday. I'll report the effects after a month.
I see huge a difference in greasiness of hair and oiliness of the scalp, however I have to say that my hair is still pretty thin and I still have some dandruff. Any ideas?

We want a lower fraction of free androgen, of course not too low, otherwise the effects of that become worrisome too.

The more bound androgen, the less conversion to both estradiol and DHT. In my case, very early and fast hair loss, my SHBG is far below normal.

Thats grossly oversimplifying it because there is obviously a proper balance for all of these hormones, as they all have important functions.