gelatin good for hair loss?

I was researching the nutritional value of gelatin. It's found in a lot of confectionary like marshmellows and jujubes and gummy bears. But surprisingly enuff, it is has a high profile of different proteins, especially glycine. It comes from different animal sources like pigs and cows and wikipedia says that eating gelatin can be good for hair loss for both men and women. If wiki says that then it MUST be true. Maybe glycine is good for hair? Thing is, I really don't like the taste of a lot of those gelatin candies. Maybe just eating head cheese will help? God I love head cheese but it's pretty salty. Or how about liquifying the gelatin and rubbing it into our scalps?

i did a lot of research into gelatin, but i took it because it was a potent gut healer. if you are going to purchase gelatin, get this

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Lakes-Unflavored-Gelatin-16-Ounce/dp/B001ELLBJS/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1381422124&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=gelatin+greak+lakes

I've been supplementing with Great Lakes gelatin for about two years and think its great for anti-aging in regard to potential collagen building and joint support. Ray Peat/Danny Roddy and Dr. Campbell-McBride (GAPS Diet) have covered the benefits extensively.

shaftless wrote:Or how about liquifying the gelatin and rubbing it into our scalps?

There exists liquid collagen for this purpose.
But it is not necessary to supplement gelatin, to stimulate collagen and hair thickening it is sufficient to supplement the following collagenic amino acids: glycine, l-lysine and l-proline.

When you start getting to that high of molecular weight, you aren't going to get absorption topically unfortunately.

I'd agree with ppm on this one. Physiologically you are rarely going to consume a protein and absorb and assimilate that protein intact, rather you break it down into the constituent amino acids in the stomach/intestine, absorb them, and let the cellular machinery build up proteins according to your genetic makeup. So about the best you are going to do is to get the amino acids anyway. That said I do think gelatin is a good source of some of those aminos and being what it is, it is a fairly safe and digestible food. For that reason I think its great for the gut and repairing the barrier. We tend to absorb macronutrients better in the matrix of a whole food rather than when they are isolated so I think its optimal to get those aminos from a food where possible.

That said, collagen breakdown isn't usually a problem in MPB, rather the opposite. Growth factors like TGF-b actually encourage more collagen deposition that you want and crosslinks lead to scar tissue formation and eventually that sheen you see on a mature bald scalp.

Of course maintaining collagen in the superficial tissue of the face is a priority for most, and light wounding can help support collagen formation. Things like dermarolling or short low intensity electrical impulses can do this.

I am sure that
vitamin c
lysine/ proline
glycine

would mimic gelatine,

Someone correct me if I am wrong

plus you get the 5ar inhibiting effect of lysine.

lysine also doubles the effects of propecia,
so there is a very interesting link between gelatine, atherosclerosis, and hair loss.

AS54 wrote:When you start getting to that high of molecular weight, you aren't going to get absorption topically unfortunately.

I'd agree with ppm on this one. Physiologically you are rarely going to consume a protein and absorb and assimilate that protein intact, rather you break it down into the constituent amino acids in the stomach/intestine, absorb them, and let the cellular machinery build up proteins according to your genetic makeup. So about the best you are going to do is to get the amino acids anyway. That said I do think gelatin is a good source of some of those aminos and being what it is, it is a fairly safe and digestible food. For that reason I think its great for the gut and repairing the barrier. We tend to absorb macronutrients better in the matrix of a whole food rather than when they are isolated so I think its optimal to get those aminos from a food where possible.

That said, collagen breakdown isn't usually a problem in MPB, rather the opposite. Growth factors like TGF-b actually encourage more collagen deposition that you want and crosslinks lead to scar tissue formation and eventually that sheen you see on a mature bald scalp.

Of course maintaining collagen in the superficial tissue of the face is a priority for most, and light wounding can help support collagen formation. Things like dermarolling or short low intensity electrical impulses can do this.

are you saying collagen is dumped in the scalp, the same way it is when you have a leg injury for example ?

This may be true. but the problem would be the inflammation/injury in the scalp. not collagen

this a good article

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml

many of the things mentioned, also do correlate to hair loss supplements, notably taurine

however - linus pauling who took massive amounts of the amino acids found in gelatine, was totally bald.

so who knows

I get about 30-40 grams a day.

boogv510 wrote:I get about 30-40 grams a day.

Do you feel any improvement hair wise or health wise?

Thinking about making a bone broth soup this week

MikeBison wrote:

boogv510 wrote:I get about 30-40 grams a day.

Do you feel any improvement hair wise or health wise?

Its hard to say, I do feel better but I don't think its because of the gelatin. I made a huge change in my diet.

gelatine amino acid composition

glycine 21%,
proline 12%,
hydroxyproline 12%,
glutamic acid 10%,
alanine 9%,
arginine 8%,
aspartic acid 6%,
lysine 4%,

many of those are mentioned on hair loss forums and good hair loss supplements.
Also, it's a ray peat staple .

I think it's a hair loss essential, or at least, take the individual amino acids.

one final thought :

if the mythical hair loss term "fibrosis" is a scarring and damaging of the scalp, which blocks proper hair from forming

then the solution would be collagen building nutrients and foods

I have never for a second believed calcium deposits block hair from forming, even though I take k2, magnesium and msm which stop the calcification

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:one final thought :

if the mythical hair loss term "fibrosis" is a scarring and damaging of the scalp, which blocks proper hair from forming

then the solution would be collagen building nutrients and foods

I have never for a second believed calcium deposits block hair from forming, even though I take k2, magnesium and msm which stop the calcification

Might be worthwhile to look into glucosamine sulfate

AS54 wrote:When you start getting to that high of molecular weight, you aren't going to get absorption topically unfortunately.



That said, collagen breakdown isn't usually a problem in MPB, rather the opposite. Growth factors like TGF-b actually encourage more collagen deposition that you want and crosslinks lead to scar tissue formation and eventually that sheen you see on a mature bald scalp.

"fibrosis, battling the over production of collagen" - taurine can prevent this

TGF-beta is also blocked by taurine.

however you need to take about 5 grams a day. don't bother with capsules

http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateHairMassMan11-10.html

gelatine -- may actually have the potential to be bad for hair loss, if collagen overproduction is a problem for people

someone connected TGF-beta and collagen, which is bad


Linus Pauling, who was bald, took massive amounts of lysine, proline and vitamin c, up to 18 grams a day

Although it clears the arteries, I wonder if the excess collagen damaged his hair ?
Maybe he should have added in taurine for balance, which helps stop excess collagen

the case against lysine :

1) many forums users on other forums says it thinned their hair
2) pauling who took 10 grams a day, bald as a bat
3) will cause an amino imbalance, especially of arginine

consider it

I've always had a hard time putting on weight but I notice that after a few weeks of taking between 1-2tbsp of great lakes gelatin I put on 5-10lbs each time. As soon as I stop the weight drops back off. Most people claim gelatin aids weight loss. Any ideas what's going? No other negative sides other than the odd weight gain.

I take about 3-5 tbsp of great lake gelatin a day, its dam expensive!

I took it previously and was very enthused.  But now I am wondering about the fluoride content of gelatin.  It is from bones,
and fluoride collects primarily in bones.  I brought this up at Chris Kresser's site and haven't gotten an answer so far.

Well, seek and find, this thread seems to have answers:

http://www.curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=1232228

any fluoride that might be present in gelatin is in the 'calcium fluoride' form. in other words its bound to calcium, this is due to gelatin being made from bone and bone has very high calcium levels obviously.

calcium fluoride is no more dangerous than table salt. if you dont believe me look at this post.


http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1100227#i


GrzBear had posted about the possibility that calcium neutralizes fluoride. I did some research and discovered he may be right. For those who dont know what the LD50 rating is, LD stands for "Lethal Dose". LD50 is the amount of a material, given all at once, which causes the death of 50% (one half) of a group of test animals. The LD50 is one way to measure the short-term poisoning potential (acute toxicity) of a material.

the LD50 rating of elemental fluoride is 52 mg/kg, which is very low. In other words its a very toxic substance.

HOwever! the LD50 rating for Calcium-Fluoride is 4,250 mg/kg! That is about the same rating that table salt gets. In other words while pure fluoride is highly toxic, calcium fluoride is about as toxic as table salt.

This is truly amazing. It would seem the calcium nearly totally neutralizes the fluoride.

I still think the amino glycine - also taurine - is the best bang for your buck and highly bioavailable. You are going to keep your gallbladder running strong and able to efficiently process fat soluble substances. Plus it will assist sleep and you'll get a nice GH boost on an empty stomach... in absence of lipids.

Great Lakes sources their collagen from Argentinian (also Brazilian?) cattle hides, btw. It's sort of a rip when you consider the relative cheapness and availability of bones. Use this pressure cooker and you are all set. Couldn't live without this stuff, great for hair and nail quality, sleep, anxiety, gut health, food satiation, energy etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Instant-Pot-IP-DUO60-Programmable-Generation/dp/B00FLYWNYQ?&th=1

Kresser's core science is way more sound and reasonable than Peat's anyhow, even though they share some concepts in common.

That's a nice pot, added to my Amazon cart for the next time I place an order.

Gelatin makes a great hair mask, think I'll use it today.  Can really tell the difference with this. I usually leave it on
a lot longer than five min.

Ingredients
1 tablespoon powdered gelatin
½ cup water
1 teaspoon apple cider vinegar
1 teaspoon honey
Instructions
Stir the powdered gelatin into the water until it dissolves. Add the vinegar and honey, and stir again. Let sit until it forms a thick paste.
Slather on wet hair in the shower, let sit for at least five minutes, and then rinse and shampoo and condition as usual.
For an extra hit of protein, apply the gel to wet hair and then blow dry on a low setting.
The hair will feel hard and crunchy, but the gelatin will rehydrate and rinse out once it gets wet again.
t is suggested to do this up to a few times a week to get desired hair thickness/strength and then once a week for maintenance.

Read more: http://homegrownandhealthy.com/gelatin-hair-mask/#ixzz3FxxQAw1JI

I've been having bone broth every morning for the last few weeks, my skin is ridiculously soft at the moment.

Any good natural sources of taurine or is pills the only real option there?