New S-equol treatment

This is being talked about on another forum and I am interested in this forum's opinion of such a product:

http://folexen.com/

an employee of the company provides more information on this thread.

i didnt see whether this product contains equol or aims to convert one into an equol producer instead.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/62501-Folexen-new-treatment-based-on-S-equol

so it looks like their dose is too low. on 10 mg a day the average change in hair count was +2 hair in the region they looked at or something like a 2% improvement. i suppose its better than 0 change or a loss, but youd probably want to increase the dose.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnIeGMRtsCrhdHB6LUt3QzFOb1BKWDJnRW0yMmFqd1E#gid=0

IMO the theory is there. With equol you sequester the offending agent itself.

Not inhibiting 5ar would be a huge boon over agents like dutasteride and finasteride. With dut you affect the 5ar 1 that is in the brain and inhibit neurosteroids, with fin and dut you are affecting the T to E ratio - block T to DHT, and T will cascade into other hormones like estradiol and such. Avoiding the change in the T to E ratio should lessen the side effect. Avoiding affecting the neurosteroids should also lessen the side effect.

Seems like an ideal approach really. And apparently this product is equol not the substances thought to turn people into an equol producers as when people tried this approach before.

The issue is the dose they use is small. Probably too small to see the kind of thickening youd see using inhibition of 5ar.

I'd up the dose 5x and see what happens. Itd be between 100-200 USD a month. Try for a few months. Even on the low dose they got an improved hair count by about 2-3%

Very interesting, I'll have to take a look at their site later on when i get more time.

Is anyone here going to be giving it a go?

LawOfThelema wrote:so it looks like their dose is too low. on 10 mg a day the average change in hair count was +2 hair in the region they looked at or something like a 2% improvement. i suppose its better than 0 change or a loss, but youd probably want to increase the dose.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnIeGMRtsCrhdHB6LUt3QzFOb1BKWDJnRW0yMmFqd1E#gid=0

As far as I can see, these new guys recommend a dose of 2 x 1 grams per day, which should be a bit different...

60 AUD for 100 grams.

I am talking about active ingredient. That 1 gram powder is not all active ingredient. It'd be no different. It's 1 g with 0.5 per cent active ingredient. Do the math and the powder form you'll see gives the same amount of active ingredient as the capsules.

LawOfThelema wrote:I am talking about active ingredient. That 1 gram powder is not all active ingredient. It'd be no different. It's 1 g with 0.5 per cent active ingredient. Do the math and the powder form you'll see gives the same amount of active ingredient as the capsules.

Ahh, my bad, I actually thought it was pure S-Equol in that powder!

Interesting but very expensive!

This "binding" to the DHT, might this do other bad stuff like rendering it unusable to help with muscle growth etc.? Anyone know?

I remember a few years ago Hoppi talking about s-equol and he contacted doctors to try get an s-equol supplement made I believe, one doctor seemed up for it but never knew what happened really...

Some years ago this was an exciting topic. However, so far to date all of the S-Equol products that have been tried have been met with some negative results. Take a look at Google selection (not Inside) on this site and you'll see what the opinions were.

The FAQ was curiously lacking convincing information.

Weren't the prior product designed to turn one into a producer based mainly on epidemiological data as to what equol producers ate rather than s-equol itsel? And it seemed hoppi was taking stuff to become a producer from what I've seen from old threads.

Virtua even pseudo-hermaphrodites who have zero dihydrotestosterone has musculature of a normal adult male.

He talked to me off this forum about what I mentioned above.

on the other forum, I asked the employee if he can provide some data that his product does in fact contain the active stereoisomer of equol, s-equol, not r-equol which is not bioactive.

if not, using this would be foolish, as supplments, at least in the US are not a regulated industry. if could well contain no equol. not sure how the laws are in australia but i could see them being similarly lax.

if it actually had s-equol in it, i'd give it a go.

if he can't provide this data, then the only alternative would be to buy some, and send it to a lab to get it tested for the active ingredient. i don't know how costly such lab test usually are.

LawOfThelema wrote:Weren't the prior product designed to turn one into a producer based mainly on epidemiological data as to what equol producers ate rather than s-equol itsel? And it seemed hoppi was taking stuff to become a producer from what I've seen from old threads.

Virtua even pseudo-hermaphrodites who have zero dihydrotestosterone has musculature of a normal adult male.

From what I've gathered, you are correct. It would be really interesting to see how this particular product performs -- even more interesting if someone could afford to up the dosage. I wish they had performed more testing.

i have asked them if they could provide product for 5x the recommended dose for a period of 5 months at the current discounted price. if they could and could convince me it is really sequol then id do it.

CausticSymmetry wrote:Some years ago this was an exciting topic. However, so far to date all of the S-Equol products that have been tried have been met with some negative results. Take a look at Google selection (not Inside) on this site and you'll see what the opinions were.

The FAQ was curiously lacking convincing information.

how could you say that? From the studies I've seen, it is pretty effective at blocking DHT and we know that less DHT - more hair. Why wouldn't that work again?

The result should be better on this one, as it is equol itself, not some cocktail designed to turn your gut into an equol producer.

i already took 15 mg today. ill keep you posted if i see results

LawOfThelema wrote:i already took 15 mg today. ill keep you posted if i see results

Interested to hear if you get any results as I'm thinking about trying this stuff myself.

my hair count of my shed is down over the past four days.

down 20% then on the next count down 29% from baseline of 150 hairs shed a day

i regard this as significant because i shed consistent and high about 150-200 hairs a day depending on how tangle my hair is.

this about coincides with the 1 week mark of me splitting the dose into 3X per day to ensure that there is equol in my system at all times given its relatively short half life and high clearance rate... 25-30 mg a day split into three doses... we see if it continues to decrease

i have it coming from a cheaper source so i can maintain this dose or increase it at my leisure

So it is the folexen equol that you are using?

Sounds like you're getting some benefits from it, will be interesting to see what happens as the months roll on.

Where is the cheaper source Law?

Ausio pharmaceuticals pharmacokinetic studies determine peak plasma concentration of equol is lowered with food consumption (kinda expected). consume your equol without food.

I actually attempted to become an equol producer during 2010, using soy isoflavones, bioperine and specific probiotics. It actually worked really well, not just the hair, but my lactose intolerance cured itself.

I eventually wanted to go the s-equol route, but it seemed too cost prohibitive at the time. I might just revisit this one. Valproic Acid has me intrigued as well.

BTW, an inexpensive yet very precise 0.001g scale:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20g-x-0-001g-Digital-Scale-Grain-Gram-Jewelry-PRO-20-/230847750918?pt=US_Pocket_Digital_Scales&hash=item35bf992306

lol this company folded already! it is very strange coincidence that it precisely coincides with a thread at Hair loss Talk discussing why folexen was likely a scam.