The beautiful substance called finasteride

Or maybe not, but in my mind, finasteride, despite it's potential sides for the user, could result in less baldness for a unspecified amount of time. Some of you might disagree. Feel free to do so.

One. I would like to know, would you guys hate me if I started with finasteride?
Two. Would problem occur if I also used IH's pill regime at the same time?
Three. Could the two "blocks" even work to inhibit each other?

As you might understand, I'm a bit confused here since I'm not fully convinced that IH's program is powerful enough. I think it could be, but I'm not sure yet and one extremely evil factor has to be considered: Time. The longer I wait the more I lose.

Don't get me wrong, please.

Any suggestions or advice?

Misirlou--

As IH has pointed out, Finasteride is just a well-advertised poison. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not on IH's entire regime, nor are you using a laser helmet. I was shedding like a bunny rabbit until I hopped into the laser clinic and finasteride, then I went on IH's regime and dropped the poison and crafted my own helmet and dropped the ridiculous monthly expenses of the laser clinic. Now, I have probably 50 hairs in 2 days visible shed...if that. The finasteride-sides suck, and going after the result of a problem rather than the root (as fina does) won't do much of anything for your health in the long run except bad things IMO.

Nobody's going to hate you for going on Fina though, it's your body and your choice to make.

Over the years, I have noticed that if one person observes good results from another on Finasteride, they may assume it will work for them just as well. It's not always the case. Finasteride has a 60% success rate, which is on par with a natural androgen blockade therapy, such as Beta-Sitosterol. The problem is, the sides.

I've never touched Finasteride, but I definitely have an idea of what the sides are like. I used to use mega doses of Beta-Sitosterol, even wrote a book on it. Even my early days of Saw Palmetto caused groin pain, and possibly loss of libido. The effects of these drugs can sometimes be subtle, so the negative effects are not quite as apparent, until you get off of them.

IH,

I think he's really asking if your regimen can be used with Propecia and if it will affect it. I kind of think that's what he wants to know more than anything.

I don't wan to speak for IH, but I can answer your question I believe...Yes you can take finasteride and use Immortal's Regimen (It do it with Dutasteride). I can also speak from my own experience that finasteride didn't do all that much really for my hair (I'm sure it slowed it down), but Dutasteride/Avodart works 10 times better for me. This may be because it blocks both types of DHT, or just because it blocks I higher total percentage. It also has more side effects, but if you are willing to put yourself through the sides from finasteride, then you might as well use the more effective stuff.

I am personally just buying time with the dutasteride (just like I was with the finasteride). I stopped taking it everyday though as it would make my anxiety sky high and I feel "asexual" lol. Once I get a laser helmet on my head for a few months, and give IH's supps and diet a while then I may try and stop the dutasteride or go to maybe once a week or less. Dutasteride has a REALLY long half life too, so that may also be why it is more effective for me. DHT type 1 is found in the skin, and finasteride only blocks type 2. I used to have acne and greasy face on finasteride but dutasteride keeps the acne at excess sebum at bay.

Also, just in general..The more treatment approaches or angles that you can utilize against hair loss, the more likely your success. Right now there is no one silver bullet. If you can tolerate finasteride then I see that as an advantage over those who absolutely cannot because it is one more weapon in your arsenal.

In no way am I saying it is good for you either; just that works for many people including me. IH's stuff will help with your overall general health and wellbeing too, which is good if you are taking drugs. Can only benefit you if it does nothing for hair loss. In a sense everyone should be on IH's top 3 or 6 because they aren't specific to hair loss; they are good for everyones health.

Perhaps its too early to tell, but finasteride seems to be improving my health. I am primarily taking it to deal with a strongly genetic trait for prostate trouble though (prevention), and on recommendation by my doctor.

Funnily enough, I did feel lower libido the first time I took S Palmetto, but that resolved pretty quickly and soon turned to pleasant horniness. The main side effect I have with finasteride is the side effect that the prostate treatment people found: It makes your hair grow better.

But of course I am well into sensible complimentary additions though, and I do believe in getting my life sorted out in perspective, health and wellbeing first, purpose in life, family and friends, then hair (as an indicator of prostate health).

Lux

It is pretty easy to stop finasteride use if one or two of the more apparent sides occur. Other sides might not be as easy to realize since they can have a stealthy approach, however, using both IH's regime and finasteride would in my mind, if the bad sides are low or even not noticeable, be a strong team to halt the development of male pattern baldness. But will these two "schools" work together or inhibit each other?

From what I can read in this thread they will work together rather then killing each other.

Of course they'll work together, however, you don't know what long-term damage it might be doing. The sides that you don't see.

If you want to stop DHT in a natural way (and help your prostate Lux), then check out Epilobium.

Hi all!...I'm new at this forum...could you please help me out!..

I'm 30. I've been using propecia for more than 2 years now with "good" results. Baically I stoped losing my hair and regrowing new hair slowly with time. The problem is that I WANT TO STOP TAKING THAT DRUG!...I tryed last week (after 2 long years taking propecia daily!). I stoped taking propecia and my hairs are now falling down in a way I didn't expect!. Like 30 hairs in my hand everytime I shower! Of course they say (propecia) this is supposed to happend, but I didn't know that that was that fast!...I'm eating more healthy (organic, raw when possible, salmon, nuts, take natural multivitamin and exercise, coconut oil, olive oil, a fruit a day in the morning, no alcohol, no sugars, etc). Is there a way that I can stop taking propecia without saying goodbye with all my new strong hair?...Or the only way is to wait for the silent sides effects of that drug!...
Thank you very much!....
Great info BTW...
LOLO
Texas

Nid
Epilobium..got any specific product recommendation?

LOLO
I guess you could follow the IH's regime? Why do you want to abandon the successful treatment of propecia? Did you get any sides?

LOLO, I answered that same reply of yours in another thread.

Misirlou--

http://www.epilobium.com/

Natural doesn't automatically mean safe.

Nid, why would this natural product be better then the synthetic finasteride?
We all know that Saw Palmetto hasn't been a tremendous success combating hair loss, rather the opposite.

I love the fact that this product is in liquid form. It's a bit pricey but if it an effective DHT inhibitor at follicle level I would easily pay the double.

What does CS think of this?

Propecia works fine with IH's regimen.

I plan on moving to all natural here soon as propecia is very hard on your liver and the rest of your body.

Thanks Nidhogge

I'll take another look at epilobium

My own perspective on finasteride is that of a scientist. Long term side effects are something that the FDA take into account, as do many of the researchers that have tested it. They are still testing though, and I will of course adjust my view according to results. One interesting study is the one on nocebo. Its clear enough why nocebo would work so strongly with finasteride, as libido, sexual health in general, and hair, are such insecurity buttons. To counter any nocebo, I just focus on the scientific method, and rest assured that there is significant benefit in having the most effect from a substance that has passed controlled studies. I seem to be getting quite a strong confidence effect and I think thats partly due to knowledge about scientific process. It helps that doctors in general say its a good idea in my case (according to the ones I met, and the journal papers I read).

I am a fan of what people are exploring here though, as some of the substances are very friendly to the health in general. I would add specific exercises to a regime though. Especially those that cleanse the skin and help circulation. For my hair, I have been doing various light inversions for years, and the benefits go well beyond hair maintenance.

Cheers
Lux

Lux--

Those who work at the FDA are not fit to be scientists or doctors. Those in the FDA that are, go on to real professions that make them good money. The FDA relies on bribes from pharmaceutical companies, and is incredibly overworked. To put confidence in whatever the FDA states is a fallacy. Pharma. companies engineer their own studies and tweak the results to fit their agenda, and then throw the money at the FDA to push it through. Propecia causes depression, for example. That's first-hand info. that I provided you about the FDA, from a friend that works with the FDA all the time. He is a doctor.

Perhaps you are right Nidhogge

I get most of my decision making advice from the more independent journal papers and the doctors I know (my bro and grandparents included). I am actually more worried about taking "natural" supplements that have far less research than finasteride. Nobody has even come close to determining long term effects of some of the combinations shown here. I'm taking a "survival test" view on the supplements. For example, I took grapeseed supplement and got serious rashes and itchyness an hour afterwards. Never again! No no no! But I took greentea supplement and my skin felt pretty soothed, so I'll keep on with greentea.

I guess I am taking a chemist's or ethnobotanist's perspective on "natural" substances though. Botany was my undergrad degree. Looking at some of the secondary metabolites in even camelia (tea) plants its obvious that "planty" is not always healthy.

Informed decisions rule.

Lux

The advantage of natural substances is there is a greater likelihood of tolerance. "FDA approved" substances kill millions everywhere, including over the counter aspirin, Tylenol, and ibuprofen.

Some naturals can exert bio individuality traits. A good example is pycnogenol and even grape seed extract. For reasons unknown these supplements in some can produce some undesired effects, but they are harmless and will cease sometime after usage. More many, either of these supplements are incredibly beneficial, so they are worth consideration.

On good example of bio individuality is Ecklonia cava. It's generally well tolerated, but one of the members here found it gave a rash. Pcynogenol gives me an acne filled forehead, but it works with no sides for the member who couldn't use Ecklonia cava.

As far as Propecia goes, it is an irreversible enzyme inhibitor. My concern about long term use of finasteride is potential neurodegenerative capabilities. Research has already shown that finasteride promotes a greater likliehod of anxiety and depression. Through the same mechanism, which is a reduction in the production of pregenolone & progesterone the propensity to acquire a neurodegenerative disease, such as early dementia is possible.

Sure its possible

I'd stick with probabilities though. I feel mentally alert, and if finasteride made me in any way dopy I would definitely be shaking my doc friend's cages again. My doc bro at first was a bit dubious about finasteride, but then did some research of his own and quickly phoned me up to advise taking it. He now takes it himself. (The same prostate concern). I'm definitely more into adopting a helpful hair lifestyle than him, but I have to agree with the caring professions.

When I did my PhD, the pharmacology grads I knew were always seriously interested in making drugs safer. Quite a few of them had reservations about some "complementary" methods, but said that as long as they are reasonable and don't inhibit a real effect, then its fine to develop that lifestyle (just don't join Scientology:)

Cheers
Lux

Does anyone know why does finasteride in some users actually increase libido (while improving their hair) and why is not effective against acne if DHT is the main culprit (in many cases fin makes acne worse)?

Fin can cause hyperandrogenicity in some people, which is why sometimes it causes acne and even speeds up hair loss.

theseeker86 wrote:Fin can cause hyperandrogenicity in some people, which is why sometimes it causes acne and even speeds up hair loss.

Yes, I am aware of that, but still some users report hair benefits inspite of acne and increased libido. What would be a mechanism behind this? If DHT is essential for penile health why would someone get better erections using fin (because of increase of testosterone?)?

Finasteride usually damages the endocrine system...we are all different...It doesn't seem likely that it would improve sexual health...because a reduction in DHT will cause insufficient amounts of Nitric Oxide Synthase (NOS), and without that, it's not very easy to produce an erection. Perhaps the body will up-regulate what it can...but indefinitely seems unlikely.