Best whey protein?

berti wrote:have a look at this one too teacup

http://www.red23.co.uk/ImmunoPro-Rx-300g_p_75.html

you can get it at iHerb I think

abc123 wrote:You want whey protein concentrate, NOT isolate. Isolate removes all the beneficial compounds.

ppm wrote:

abc123 wrote:You want whey protein concentrate, NOT isolate. Isolate removes all the beneficial compounds.

And what exactly would those "beneficial compounds" be I'm curious? Perhaps you should not parrot everything Mercola and friends so say. I hope that he is an expert on something, but when it comes to protein powders, he is lost.
Whey isolates used to be made (and there are still some around) by ion-exchanging process, but nowadays the state-of-art is cross-flow microfiltration (CFM). This mechanical "cold" filtration enriches the peptides (and it's the peptides that set whey apart from other proteins) and strips the lactose and the bad cholesterol. This quote sums it up well: "The pros of well made micro filtered isolates is a high protein content (90% or above), low lactose and fat levels, very low levels of undenatured proteins, and the retention of important subfractions in their natural ratios." Granted, CLA is also stripped, but oh my.

ppm wrote:This is getting hilarious, so let me pull some numbers here. Consider this example of whey protein fractions
from an ultra-filtrated wpc vs a micro-filtrated wpi:

For the wpc the protein fractions are: 44% Beta lactoglobulin, 17% Alpha lactalbumin, 1.5% Bovine serum albumin, 8% Immunoglobulin G, 0.5% Lactoferrin, 26% Glycomacropeptide.

In contrast, for the wpi the protein fractions are: 47% Beta lactoglobulin, 17% Alpha lactalbumin, 1.5% Bovine serum albumin,2% Immunoglobulin G, 0.5% Lactoferrin, 27% Glycomacropeptide.

As you can see, no big difference there.

Now for the cholesterol (for 100g of protein powder): the wpc yields ~200mg, while the wpi yields <1mg.

Further, fat: ~6% vs <1%.

And finally, lactose: ~5% vs <1%.

Despite the low glycemic index of lactose, its insulin index is much higher. The fat in the wpc is so little that it won't slow down anything. Is there a significant difference in the amino acid profiles between the two? Nope. Both, the wpc and the wpi will spike insulin because they are rich in bcaa, and they will deliver fast. But they are meant to be anabolic anyway.

Now, both are being spray-dried. In the case of wpi, there is nothing to damage. In the case of wpc, both the cholesterol and the pufa are being damaged.

Sorry I could'nt resist. I do not per se advocate wpi over wpc; but for those who want to avoid damaged cholesterol/pufa: watch out for the cold processed, cross-flow micro-filtrated (termed CFM), hence undenatured, wpi, and not the ion-exchange wpi.

Finally, I will re-quote: "The pros of well made micro filtered isolates is a high protein content (90% or above), low lactose and fat levels, very low levels of undenatured proteins, and the retention of important subfractions in their natural ratios."

- The pros of well made micro filtered isolates, is a high protein content (90% or above), low lactose and fat levels, very low levels of undenatured proteins, and the retention of important subfractions in their natural ratios. There really are no cons per se, unless the person wants the additional compounds (e.g., higher levels of growth factors, CLA, etc.) found in a well made concentrate.

Pro's and con's of concentrates:

First Generation whey protein powders contained as low as 30-40% protein and contained high amounts of lactose, fat, and undenatured proteins. They were considered a "concentrate" and were used mostly by the food industry for baking and other uses. Modern concentrates now contain as high as 70-80% plus protein with reduced amounts of lactose and fat. Many people are under the impression that a WPC is inherently inferior to an isolate.

This is simply untrue. Though WPCs will contain less protein on a gram for gram basis than an isolate, a high quality WPC contains all sorts of interesting compounds not found in the isolates. Good concentrates contain far higher levels of growth factors, such as IGF-1, TGF-ß1, and TGF-ß2.

They contain much higher levels of various phospho lipids, and various bio active lipids, such as Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA), and they often contain higher levels of immunoglobulins and lactoferrin. Although data is lacking as to whether or not these compounds found in a good WPC will effect an athlete's muscle mass or performance, studies do suggest these compounds can improve immunity, intestinal health, and have many other effects that both athletes and "normal" people alike may find beneficial.

The drawbacks of WPCs are they have slightly less protein gram for gram than an isolate, and contain higher levels of fat (though these fats may in fact have beneficial effects) and higher levels of lactose. People should not be under the impression that a well made WPC is inherently inferior to a WPI and may in fact be a superior choice, depending on the goals of the person.

For example, some people don't tolerate lactose well or are trying to watch every gram of fat in their diet, etc. while other may want the potentially beneficial effects of the additional compounds found in a high quality concentrate.

The pro's and con's of isolates, and the micro filtered vs. ion exchange debate.

WPI's generally contain as much as 90-96% protein. Research has found that only whey proteins in their natural undenatured state (i.e. native conformational state) have biological activity. Processing whey protein to remove the lactose, fats, etc. without losing its biological activity takes special care by the manufacturer. Maintaining the natural undenatured state of the protein is essential to its anti-cancer and immune stimulating activity.

The protein must be processed under low temperature and/or low acid conditions as not to "denature" the protein and this becomes an even greater concern when making high grade isolates vs. concentrates. WPI's contain >90% protein contents with minimal lactose and virtually no fat. The advantage of a good WPI is that it contains more protein and less fat, lactose, and ash then concentrates on a gram for gram basis.

However, it should be clear to the reader by now that whey is far more complicated than simple protein content, and protein content per se is far from the most important factor when deciding which whey to use. For example, ion exchange has the highest protein levels of any isolate. Does that make it the best choice for an isolate? No, but many companies still push it as the holy grail of whey.

Ion exchange is made by taking a concentrate and running it through what is called an "ion exchange" column to get an "ion exchange whey isolate." Sounds pretty fancy but there are serious drawbacks to this method. As mentioned above, whey protein is a complex protein made up of many sub fraction peptides that have their own unique effects on health, immunity, etc. Some of these subfractions are only found in very small amounts.

In truth, the subfractions are really what ultimately makes whey the unique protein it is. Due to the nature of the ion exchange process, the most valuable and health promoting components are selectively depleted. Though the protein content is increased, many of the most important subfractions are lost or greatly reduced.

This makes ion exchange isolates a poor choice for a true third-generation whey protein supplement, though many companies still use it as their isolate source due to the higher protein content. Ion exchange isolates can be as high as 70% or greater of the subfraction Beta-lactoglobulin, (the least interesting and most allergenic subfraction found in whey) with a loss of the more biologically active and interesting subfractions.

So, the pros of an ion exchange whey is for those who simply want the very highest protein contents per gram, but the cons are that the higher protein content comes at cost; a loss of many of the subfractions unique to whey. Not an acceptable trade in my view considering the fact that the actual protein differences between a micro filtered type isolate is minimal from that of an ion exchange.

This segues us nicely into looking at the micro filtered whey isolates. With the array of more recent processing techniques used to make WPI's - or pull out various subfractions - such as Cross Flow Micro filtration (CFM) ultra filtration (UF), micro filtration (MF), reverse osmosis (RO), dynamic membrane filtration (DMF), ion exchange chromatography, (IEC), electro-ultrafiltration (EU), radial flow chromatography (RFC) and nano filtration (NF), manufacturers can now make some very high grade and unique whey proteins. Perhaps the most familiar micro filtered isolate to readers, would be CFM*.

Although the term "cross flow micro filtered" is something of a generic term for several similar ways of processing whey, The CFM processing method uses a low temperature micro filtration techniques that allows for the production of very high protein contents (>90%), the retention of important subfractions, extremely low fat and lactose contents, with virtually no undenatured proteins. CFM is a natural non-chemical process which employs high tech ceramic filters, unlike ion exchange, which involves the use of chemical regents such as hydrochloric acid and sodium hydroxide. CFM whey isolate also contains high amounts of calcium and low amounts of sodium.

To sum this section up:

- The pros of concentrates is there may be higher levels of various -and potentially beneficial - growth factors, lipids, phospholipids, and other potentially interesting compounds. The cons are lower protein gram for gram than isolates, and higher levels of fat and lactose that some people may wish to avoid. Like all whey proteins, not all concentrates are created equal in their levels of the above mentioned compounds of interest.

- The pros of Ion exchange isolates is extremely low fat and lactose levels, with the highest protein levels (on a gram for gram basis). The cons -which outweigh the pros in my view - is the loss of important subfractions in favor of higher amounts of Beta-Lac.

- The pros of well made micro filtered isolates, is a high protein content (90% or above), low lactose and fat levels, very low levels of undenatured proteins, and the retention of important subfractions in their natural ratios. There really are no cons per se, unless the person wants the additional compounds (e.g., higher levels of growth factors, CLA, etc.) found in a well made concentrate.

* = CFM is a trade mark process (hence the annoying trade mark sign next to when ever I write CFM) of Glanbia Nutritionals, a large dairy company out of Ireland with offices in the US.

abc123 wrote:Your numbers suck hard, 200mg cholesterol per 100g serve?

You must not read very well because I already said the problem was with ion exchanged whey.

Given that the numbers you are using are accurate, I assume you're pulling them off the manufactures' site, your whey is still missing the beneficial fats.

I'm curious as to what the rest of your diet is if this is such a big concern for you.

You are also forgetting that WPC is much cheaper. People like you are the reason supplement companies make a killing.

ppm wrote:

abc123 wrote:Your numbers suck hard, 200mg cholesterol per 100g serve?

The cholesterol figure is about right, you can look it up yourself. Take as an example ON's "Gold Standard", which is a blend of isolate and concentrate (it seems like all the big names currently only sell blends, no pure concentrates), with a high proportion of isolate (I assume close to 50%). Its cholesterol content is stated as 30mg per 32g serving.

You must not read very well because I already said the problem was with ion exchanged whey.

I know that. Yet, when people comment on wpi, they hardly differentiate between the various (production) types (either they are poorly informed or by intention). As you know, not all isolates are made equally.

Given that the numbers you are using are accurate, I assume you're pulling them off the manufactures' site, your whey is still missing the beneficial fats.

Well, with roughly 5% fat a serving of wpc won't give you meaningful amount of milk-fat anyway. You better go buy some fatty cheese for that purpose.

I'm curious as to what the rest of your diet is if this is such a big concern for you.

Currently I'm exploring an ultra low-fat (just a few walnuts and epa, dha), non animal products except whey (and epa, dha) type of diet. Ideally I would like to go only fruit, vegetables and whey (isolate) (and epa, dha as well). Unfortunately I seem to have some problems with the fruit part, most likely due to a low fructose/fructan tolerance or something else.

You are also forgetting that WPC is much cheaper. People like you are the reason supplement companies make a killing.

This is a great point, and I did not forget. I am not happy with this fact either, but if I want to avoid what I think is bad about wpc, I have no choice but to use wpi.

So long.

abc123 wrote:I was more so annoyed you accused me of parroting mercola.