Papain - best products to use..?

I was wondering if there is a consensus on which topical papain product is best to use and what to mix it with?

I know that Prague said he had great results with a mix of topical papain and HA, but I find it hard to locate exactly what product he recommends as well as the concentrations.

Does anyone know what he was using and how much of each he mixed together?


Any info would be appreciated.

So no one out there still using topical papain or Bromelain?

The exact amount of papain/bromelain is something you should figure out through trial and error, within reasonable bounds of course. I have used anywhere from a 1% mix to a sticky 25%, though I figure an average somewhat healthy scalp could tolerate around 5% enzymes to 95% base for prolonged application without any real issue. You will know you have used too much because your skin will feel slightly irritated the next day.

This papain is good, and is also probably the most economical and convenient. http://www.makemeheal.com/mmh/product.do?id=26501&utm_source=google&utm_medium=product&utm_campaign=googleproduct

Life Extension makes a similar bromelain product, which I feel is better for topicals creation than papain.

unfortunate wrote:I was wondering if there is a consensus on which topical papain product is best to use and what to mix it with?

I know that Prague said he had great results with a mix of topical papain and HA, but I find it hard to locate exactly what product he recommends as well as the concentrations.

Does anyone know what he was using and how much of each he mixed together?


Any info would be appreciated.

I won't answer for Prague but as I've been talking to him I feel that the Papain is really just the tip of the iceberg, he was doing a lot more then that topical at the time and before he got the regrowth, and he stresses this to me.

TheFunkyStumpfighter wrote:The exact amount of papain/bromelain is something you should figure out through trial and error, within reasonable bounds of course. I have used anywhere from a 1% mix to a sticky 25%, though I figure an average somewhat healthy scalp could tolerate around 5% enzymes to 95% base for prolonged application without any real issue. You will know you have used too much because your skin will feel slightly irritated the next day.

This papain is good, and is also probably the most economical and convenient. http://www.makemeheal.com/mmh/product.do?id=26501&utm_source=google&utm_medium=product&utm_campaign=googleproduct

Life Extension makes a similar bromelain product, which I feel is better for topicals creation than papain.

Thanks for the suggestions funky. Do you personally still use the papaing? And do you recommend papain over bromelain or vise versa? Also, what do you recommend using for the base? HA perphaps? Sorry that I'm so confused, I'm just still fairly new to the whole natural regimen...

action<reaction wrote:

unfortunate wrote:I was wondering if there is a consensus on which topical papain product is best to use and what to mix it with?

I know that Prague said he had great results with a mix of topical papain and HA, but I find it hard to locate exactly what product he recommends as well as the concentrations.

Does anyone know what he was using and how much of each he mixed together?


Any info would be appreciated.

I won't answer for Prague but as I've been talking to him I feel that the Papain is really just the tip of the iceberg, he was doing a lot more then that topical at the time and before he got the regrowth, and he stresses this to me.

Action, that is a good point. I hate to re-hash stuff that has mentioned before, but I remember reading something about him cutting out grains completely. I think that might have been another critical element. I obviously want to attack this problem from both ends - internally and externally? I am trying to really focus on the de-calcification right now - do you remember if he recommended any primary internals for that purpose? I'm currently taking 7500 mg of MSM daily, but other than that I'm not sure what to do internally.

Hey unfortunate, yeah Prague has cut out all gluten and I believe he still sticks with it, he advises me to eat grains at night (Buckwheat or brown rice I assume) as dinner rather than anything else though. I don't mind re-hashing so long as it's progress : D

The advise I would give you, is to focus on eliminating the causes of calcification. I don't know how many users actually took the time to read or understand my posts on the Mn-Cu-Co thread, but you'll be fighting a losing battle trying to decalcify without removing the issue at hand. I would save your MSM for a more strategic time in the future, start by eating well firstly, no refined sugars, processed, fried food, pasteurized milk products, etc, you get the picture. Next, is to start with the Apple Cider Vinegar and Lemons. If your body weight is above 150 pounds, I would juice (juice it dry and soak the peel) two lemons and drink them a day, take your minerals (if you're taking any) and Iodine with the lemon water. Your body needs to be relieved of it's acidity before it will properly utilize anything.

action<reaction wrote:Hey unfortunate, yeah Prague has cut out all gluten and I believe he still sticks with it, he advises me to eat grains at night (Buckwheat or brown rice I assume) as dinner rather than anything else though. I don't mind re-hashing so long as it's progress : D

The advise I would give you, is to focus on eliminating the causes of calcification. I don't know how many users actually took the time to read or understand my posts on the Mn-Cu-Co thread, but you'll be fighting a losing battle trying to decalcify without removing the issue at hand. I would save your MSM for a more strategic time in the future, start by eating well firstly, no refined sugars, processed, fried food, pasteurized milk products, etc, you get the picture. Next, is to start with the Apple Cider Vinegar and Lemons. If your body weight is above 150 pounds, I would juice (juice it dry and soak the peel) two lemons and drink them a day, take your minerals (if you're taking any) and Iodine with the lemon water. Your body needs to be relieved of it's acidity before it will properly utilize anything.

Action - funny you mention that because I was just reading about the ACV and lemons on the other thread 2 minutes ago... I read somewhere that ACV can lower Iodine levels so it makes sense to take Iodine with it. How much Iodine do you recommend ? I have a bottle of Iosol here that I'd like to start taking again but am not sure how much. So on the lemons, are you say to just juice 2 whole lemons a day in a glass of water and drink them?

I don't really know if ACV can take out Iodine, it's possible, but in the grand scheme of things this is how it is. We can take the ACV and pee out some Iodine, or not take the ACV and get stuck with a physiology that can't properly even accept Iodine. I know which one I'd choose.

Iodine is relative, I take a lot somedays, less on others, I'm still recovering from being a little hypo and I have to say that there is a huge difference in loading the iodine with and without ACV and Lemons. I felt a great warmth come flooding into my hands (which were usually cold, whether or not I took tons of Iodine) and I slept like a baby, weird stuff.

I have a glass travel jar that I fill up, it's pretty big, so usually I fill it in the morning with a Lemon and go about my business, by the end of the day it's empty, then I chug another one with iodine before supper.

action<reaction wrote:I don't really know if ACV can take out Iodine, it's possible, but in the grand scheme of things this is how it is. We can take the ACV and pee out some Iodine, or not take the ACV and get stuck with a physiology that can't properly even accept Iodine. I know which one I'd choose.

Iodine is relative, I take a lot somedays, less on others, I'm still recovering from being a little hypo and I have to say that there is a huge difference in loading the iodine with and without ACV and Lemons. I felt a great warmth come flooding into my hands (which were usually cold, whether or not I took tons of Iodine) and I slept like a baby, weird stuff.

I have a glass travel jar that I fill up, it's pretty big, so usually I fill it in the morning with a Lemon and go about my business, by the end of the day it's empty, then I chug another one with iodine before supper.

Wow, nice way of putting it. So you're basically saying that the acidification and/or calcification blocks us from being able to assimilate all these critical components, which would make sense. I am going to go ahead and get on the ACV and Lemon daily. Will add Iodine as well soon. I usually feel hot (flushing), rather than cold - also suffer from mild rosacea - I wonder if I'm more of a hyperthyroid than a hypo. I also tend to lose weight easily. Would Iodine still be beneficial in my case?

Hyper and Hypo both are helped by Iodine as I understand, Caustic? Input?

Calcification IS acidosis, that's the thing, that calcium comes from somewhere and is put in your tissue for a very good reason: If the body didn't do this? we'd die. Our blood needs to remain at a certain pH in order for us to live, and the body takes the calcium out of our bones to accomplish this. It's a really shit system, because the worse it gets the more it umbrella's into a whole shit creek of crap.

action<reaction wrote:Hyper and Hypo both are helped by Iodine as I understand, Caustic? Input?

Calcification IS acidosis, that's the thing, that calcium comes from somewhere and is put in your tissue for a very good reason: If the body didn't do this? we'd die. Our blood needs to remain at a certain pH in order for us to live, and the body takes the calcium out of our bones to accomplish this. It's a really shit system, because the worse it gets the more it umbrella's into a whole shit creek of crap.

So calcification and acidosis are synonymous basically? Or is the body just taking the calcium out of the bones to deal with the acidosis? Sorry, but this is just really interesting me - understanding the why and how could lead to solutions in the long run. I can say for sure that when my diet isn't clean my hair loss is definitely at its worst, no matter what supplements I'm on.

As far as Iodine - I know you said you were sleeping well since taking it, but have you experienced any nightmares? I know some have reported things, but then again I guess it would be alot better than having nightmares about losing hair lol...

Thanks again for your input - I believe that guys like you, CS and a few others on this board are going to eventually crack this thing and take down the big pharma companies that are only treating the symptoms rather than the cause.

So calcification and acidosis are synonymous basically? Or is the body just taking the calcium out of the bones to deal with the acidosis? Sorry, but this is just really interesting me - understanding the why and how could lead to solutions in the long run. I can say for sure that when my diet isn't clean my hair loss is definitely at its worst, no matter what supplements I'm on.

You've got it, calcification is a direct result of of an acidic internal environment. Diet can put a dent in it, and probably causes the initial problem, but just eating clean isn't going to do it, and exercising can make the problem worse... this is based off of all of the hundreds of pages of information that I've read recently, and also on application of a regimen against it. Prague got all his hair back, and he still has some secrets up his sleeve I'm sure he'll share at some point. Things like vitamin K2 in super high doses will help against the calcification but they are by no means a cure, anything that systemically works against calcification without eliminating the problem to begin with is slavery.

As far as Iodine - I know you said you were sleeping well since taking it, but have you experienced any nightmares? I know some have reported things, but then again I guess it would be alot better than having nightmares about losing hair lol...

I had nightmares five nights in a row starting off with heavy iodine use... not fun.

Thanks again for your input - I believe that guys like you, CS and a few others on this board are going to eventually crack this thing and take down the big pharma companies that are only treating the symptoms rather than the cause.

Thanks Unfortunate, hopefully we can change your name to fortunate at some point. Yeah, I think we are getting closer and closer. Keep reading.

action<reaction wrote:

So calcification and acidosis are synonymous basically? Or is the body just taking the calcium out of the bones to deal with the acidosis? Sorry, but this is just really interesting me - understanding the why and how could lead to solutions in the long run. I can say for sure that when my diet isn't clean my hair loss is definitely at its worst, no matter what supplements I'm on.

You've got it, calcification is a direct result of of an acidic internal environment. Diet can put a dent in it, and probably causes the initial problem, but just eating clean isn't going to do it, and exercising can make the problem worse... this is based off of all of the hundreds of pages of information that I've read recently, and also on application of a regimen against it. Prague got all his hair back, and he still has some secrets up his sleeve I'm sure he'll share at some point. Things like vitamin K2 in super high doses will help against the calcification but they are by no means a cure, anything that systemically works against calcification without eliminating the problem to begin with is slavery.

As far as Iodine - I know you said you were sleeping well since taking it, but have you experienced any nightmares? I know some have reported things, but then again I guess it would be alot better than having nightmares about losing hair lol...

I had nightmares five nights in a row starting off with heavy iodine use... not fun.

Thanks again for your input - I believe that guys like you, CS and a few others on this board are going to eventually crack this thing and take down the big pharma companies that are only treating the symptoms rather than the cause.

Thanks Unfortunate, hopefully we can change your name to fortunate at some point. Yeah, I think we are getting closer and closer. Keep reading.

Thanks again Action. I do have a lot of hope. So it seems that if we don't get rid of the acidity all the rest is pointless. So since the PH of the blood has to be at a certain range, is there any fear of alkalizing too much with things like ACV and lemon?

I should clarify, as it seems there's some confusion here.

Our blood is always alkaline, it has to be otherwise we'd drop dead.
It's the process of having to keep it alkaline that's causing all the problems, I think diet has everything to do with it, but am quite sure that merely fixing the diet isn't going to be enough to heal the damage or prevent new damage, this is a self-perpetuating problem.

I wouldn't worry about this in terms of alkalizing, I'd worry about de-acidifying. If you do somehow overalkalize your blood your body will take care of it as it would any problem with maintaining homeostasis. As said elsewhere, we are alkaline with a stronger presence of H- and acidic with a stronger presence of H+, cancers, etc all occur in an H+ state, which is rife with problems like thyroid issues.

Certain things mentioned will donate electrons and work towards balance, such as lemons (when fresh), Apple Cider Vinegar, Iodine, and Germanium too I think.

Thanks again for the response, Action. So I started ACV and lemon today - how long do u think I should be on this regimen before introducing elements such as MSM to de-calcify?

Also what foods do you think I should focus on for de-acidifying de-calcifying time period?