Lasermax Super Grow Dome 90 questions versus...

Hey guys and gals,

I was wondering if I could ask some peoples opinions on a couple of things, in particular the Lasermax Super Grow Dome 90 (90 diodes, 5mw, 650nm) and The Lazerfish Ultra 300.

First, I'm a 20 year old, caucasian male with Type II skin type and dark brown hair. I am currently experiencing hairloss that has begun to progress to NW2 and also showing signs of NW3 as well (some minor hairloss at the crown). I know from experience with laser hair removal that my hair is very susceptible to lasers (although I know calculations, wavelength and everything inbetween is different, but still though it would be worth mentioning). Hairloss on my fathers side is not a major problem, although for males on my mothers side it can only be described as brutal. At the moment I have begun (within the last week) using 5% minoxidil on the temporal twice a day and Retin-A 0.05% once a day to the temporal, crown and hairline areas that are experiencing hairloss. I do intend in increase my regime to include Nizoral Shampoo (or equivalent), 12.5% Minoxidil combined with Reservatrol, MSM and Sillicon supplements although being that I am currently a student I have to work within my means. I don't intend to use Finasteride / Dutasteride for various reasons, but that is something that isn't going to change unfortunately (albeit even if I have to loose my hair).

As well as this regime of topicals and supplements I do intend to purchase a laser device in order to aid hair regrowth or at least to maintain my current hair. Unfortunately I don't have the time, nor the space or tools to make my own device, as well as a personal hate for anything to do with wiring etc. The two devices which I would like to know peoples opinions on are:

LAZERFISH NEW ULTRA 300 HANDHELD
http://www.lllt-therapy.com/Products.html
(although I am aware that a helmet version will be released as of February 2010)

and

The Super Grow Dome 90
http://www.50lasers.com/products.php

My questions concerning this are:

Which one is most likely to be effective in regrowing my hair / maintaining the hair I currently have (from reading the boards I get the general consensus that the Supergrow 90 would be more likely too)?

What is the general consensus on the duration of time per treatment with the device? I’ve looked at OMG’s Laser Messiah’s which many say need to be used for 15 minutes, 3 times a week. Although in saying this the LM 90 only states 20 minutes, 3 times a week despite their being less than half of the number of diodes in the helmet so I am wondering what are poples opinions on the treatment time needed. I am quite conscious of overstimulation so I’d rather take the risk of understimulating a little bit than overstimulating especially as my hair is very dark.
What are peoples results of the results people have observed with the devices in question?

I apologise for asking for a lot of information in my first post on the site and certainly wouldn’t berate anyone for classing me as one of the annoying newbies. I’m currently in the process of taking pictures of my hairloss and will be documenting it all the way through with pictures for all to see.

Many thanks to everyone who keeps the site alive and going,
Benji

(I have posted this question on one other forum so if anyone is a reader of both I don't mean to cause offence by asking the question in two different places )

Benji,

Hey bud, welcome to the forum!

I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my ability here...

First, I'm a 20 year old, caucasian male with Type II skin type and dark brown hair. I am currently experiencing hairloss that has begun to progress to NW2 and also showing signs of NW3 as well (some minor hairloss at the crown). I know from experience with laser hair removal that my hair is very susceptible to lasers (although I know calculations, wavelength and everything inbetween is different, but still though it would be worth mentioning).

I wish that I had my laser helmet at your age! Good for you for attacking the problem early and arming yourself with knowledge. It seems that you're a good candidate for LLLT.

Hairloss on my fathers side is not a major problem, although for males on my mothers side it can only be described as brutal. At the moment I have begun (within the last week) using 5% minoxidil on the temporal twice a day and Retin-A 0.05% once a day to the temporal, crown and hairline areas that are experiencing hairloss. I do intend in increase my regime to include Nizoral Shampoo (or equivalent), 12.5% Minoxidil

I've used Propecia for 6 months, and while it did reduce my hair loss, the sides weren't worth it. Via natural means (the Immortal Hair regimen, Regenpure NT and Regenepure DR shampoos, Scalpure, and my laser helmet), I have brought myself back to that level of hair loss (maybe 30-50 a day, nothing out of the ordinary for a non-MPB'er), and have thickened and restored color to my hair, and achieved some regrowth so far though I need to get a good deal more regrowth on the hair line.

I used Nizoral for a while too, but there are better alternatives, such as a teaspoon of Lithium Chloride mixed in well to a non-SLS shampoo such as Aubrey Organics Brand to remove sebum.

I don't endorse putting any chemicals on or in your body, as anything that comes out of the mainstream medical community focuses on treating the symptoms, and not the overall problem, and often will ADD additional problems by your usage of said drugs.

combined with Reservatrol, MSM and Sillicon supplements although being that I am currently a student I have to work within my means. I don't intend to use Finasteride / Dutasteride for various reasons, but that is something that isn't going to change unfortunately (albeit even if I have to loose my hair).

MSM may cause your hair to grow faster, and possibly a bit thicker, Silicon I think is more effective for females (IH may want to chime in here?), and Resveratrol has very little bioavailability rendering many of the supplements useless. I use SustainAlpha LiquiVade by Primordial Performance because it has 100mg of 99% Trans-Res with the LiquiVade technology, which makes sure a lot more of it gets to your bloodstream. I'd definitely recommend focusing on the ImmortalHair Top 6 though.

LAZERFISH NEW ULTRA 300 HANDHELD
http://www.lllt-therapy.com/Products.html
(although I am aware that a helmet version will be released as of February 2010)

The handheld would be good for when you travel, but I wouldn't recommend it over a helmet. I also wouldn't count on LazerFish's helmet being a better deal or design than OMG's.

The Super Grow Dome 90
http://www.50lasers.com/products.php

$749 for 90 lasers? 90 lasers = $225, OMG helmet mold = $125, then power supply, cord, wiring, etc. about $60. Around $410. Nowhere near full coverage neither.

Which one is most likely to be effective in regrowing my hair / maintaining the hair I currently have (from reading the boards I get the general consensus that the Supergrow 90 would be more likely too)?

What boards are you reading man?

What is the general consensus on the duration of time per treatment with the device? I’ve looked at OMG’s Laser Messiah’s which many say need to be used for 15 minutes, 3 times a week. Although in saying this the LM 90 only states 20 minutes, 3 times a week despite their being less than half of the number of diodes in the helmet so I am wondering what are poples opinions on the treatment time needed. I am quite conscious of overstimulation so I’d rather take the risk of understimulating a little bit than overstimulating especially as my hair is very dark.
What are peoples results of the results people have observed with the devices in question?

Only OMG's helmet has yielded results for people. LaserMax has been a consistent disappointment, and nobody has said anything positive about handhelds in general. The key is full, undiffused coverage. OMG has a product that is unique to the market, and far and above anything that other folks have scrapped together. Also, treatment times that OMG suggests are based on the recommendations of Dr. Charles Maricle, founder of the North American Laser Light Therapy advisory board, founder of AixiZ International, CEO of Sunetics, and probably the world's preeminent laser guru.

I would start with 15 minutes, 3 times a week with OMG's helmet.

If you're going to do LLLT, do it the right way so that you don't get turned off from it!

nidhogge wrote:
The key is full, undiffused coverage.

Have i been wasting my time then? As far as i know, all of the pre-made Laser Messiah II helmets being shipped out are equipped with diffused lasers - at least, mine was. And regarding Dr. Maricle, his Sunetics design is with undiffused/focused laser diodes and not the diffused diodes we are using in our helmets. So, you might be right that the key is "full, undiffused coverage". The only problem is, i don't know anyone who is using focused diodes in their helmets. If there is a person out there using focused diodes in their helmet (and not a suspended hood), they haven't participated in the forums.

I would probably give it a try, but the laser caps weren't shipped with the helmet (not that i thought i would ever need them, but now it looks like undiffused lasers are the way to go).

Hey Jksl,

Correct me if I´m wrong,but sunetic´s clinical laser uses unfocused laser beams as you can see here (step 5);

http://www.sunetics.com/3dview.aspx

meoki wrote:Hey Jksl,

Correct me if I´m wrong,but sunetic´s clinical laser uses unfocused laser beams as you can see here (step 5);

http://www.sunetics.com/3dview.aspx

Hey, you're right. They use diffused diodes (and placed further from the scalp) - I stand corrected

I don't get it then. Why is the 'key' "full, undiffused coverage"???

Nid, if you're reading this, can you please explain?

Sorry jksl, just a semantical mistake on my part.

I meant unfocused.

And yep, Sunetics uses unfocused as well.

Hi, I am new user to this forum and found this topic regarding the Super Dome 90 Lasers. Have you bought this equipment through this website. is it a trust worthy site.if so please let me know i would really like to buy it. I did some shopping around for the machine and found a site hlcconline selling a 75 diode one for 1400 , but Super dome 90 costs around 759. So struggling to decide to buy from which site. Your help is really appreciated.

this is quite interesting as i preume it was the amount of 5mw laser diodes that asssited the hair growth? The more the merrier? I started with a hairmax comb and minoxidil, arm aching and getting bored. Then i was told this comb only had 1 laser present with the aid of reflections???Not good but i ploughed on. Lasermax, Sunetics! i have looked everywhere for an alternative that would not ache and for the right price...wow, big cash for these miracle machines.
Anyone give me a tip for the right system? I have lost a litttle at the crown of my head...well its getting worse

I have the big choice of Lasermax 90, Superdome 90, Sunetics(Lot of money) or the JCH CIV-104. The last one is the only one that massages as well as the light therapy and has the most lasers.
Any experiences of the above please inform and with the best price you have found let me know.

I designed my own device that was largely based on OMG's ideas. At first I used undiffused lasers and I seemed to get immediate results. I definately got thicker hairs in some places and in one particular patch it really filled in. This area was about 2 square inches. After 5 months I can't say I've noticed any significant changes so I've decided to put the lenses on. I did this yesterday which took me about 4 hours (114 diodes).

There is no question that the device worked at first so I have no idea why the results tapered off but I can't imagine why the focused lasers would not yield better results. My device allows for relatively simple movement so the focused laser will be able to move around in small circles ensuring total coverage. This is my theory at this point anyhow. My hair loss is at the crown and a small patch at the front. I do have hair growing in all areas but it has simply thinned out over the years. If anyone is interested I can keep you updated on my progress.

All the best...And thanks to OMG for all his amazing hard work!!!

Bro, if it worked for 5 months...keep doing it. I would not expect consistent results with LLLT, on the contrary, I'd expect it to be VERY random. This is due to the cyclical nature of hair, when it hits anagen, when it hits telogen, etc. I saw someone on another forum mention that you should give LLLT a good, consistent 2 years. In my experience, I'm going to have to agree with that. My results last winter were great after about 8 months of usage, but then I got lazy with my treatments and did some damage to my hair. So, I built myself a 500-diode device, and have been using that for the last few months, hoping to get farther than ever. For the record, I use it just about every other day, but every now and then I'll take a 2-day break. 15 to 20 minutes per session.

Kris,

I suggest NOT buying this superdome if you want results...it's a waste of money. Check out OverMachoGrande.com.

Laserhairgrowth...

Same dael, OverMachoGrande.com. Instructions to build your own and how to obtain the materials, or just have OverMachoGrande build it.

Stratoman...

One more thing...I am interested to see how 300 focused vs. 300 unfocused lasers would do against one another in a study, and we may be getting one such study done in the near future by a number of researchers that are very interested in the Laser Helmet!

sorry to hijack the thread but nid you wrote
"Resveratrol has very little bioavailability rendering many of the supplements useless."

How can it render the other supplements useless?Can you elaborate on that ? It still may not be absorbed well but how it "sabotage" the other supplements?

You suggest taking it away from the rest of the regimen?

I was wondering if anyone know the definitive answer to the question of treatment duration times and frequency when using undiffusedd lasers. I mentioned on another posting that I had switched from diffused to undiffused lasers but I'm not sure if the treatment time should be less than the 20 minutes sessions recommended for diffused lasers. It seems like it should but I'm not up on the science side of this. If anyone has any insight to this I'd appreciate knowing about it. Thanks.

Edony--

I meant many of the Resveratrol supplements currently on the market. They don't make much effort to increase the bioavailability of the herb in order to keep prices down. Better to pay a bit more and have something effective, IMO!

stratoman--

15 to 20 minutes, every other day should work fine. You can vary it up, take 2 days off, do 16 minutes one day, 18 another, etc.

This is a reply to nidhodgge. Thanks for your input. Were these times based on your personal experience and results or was this from research you have done or maybe both?

Like I mentioned on a previous post, I had great results very early on but have seen little change in the last 2 months. There is hair throughout the thinning area but none of the strands are thickening. I went to a laser clinic about a year ago an they said that I would grow multiple hairs from one folicle with laser treatment but I haven't seen that either. My hope is that the focused laser will get better results but I don't want to over do it and kibosh the whole process. I also use Proscar so I hope this combo will do the trick.

Thanks in advance.

stratoman--

That's based on a combination of observations from others, scientific research, and my personal experience. Personally, that is the protocol I follow.

Proscar (finasteride) also increases the amount of androgen receptors so it may be decent for a while, but can potentially be harmful in the long run. No problem man and it may be true that sometimes a hair strand has to fall out before it can thicken. Hard to say. I've been tempted to wax my whole head to get a fresh start...lol.

laser.hair.growth wrote:this is quite interesting as i preume it was the amount of 5mw laser diodes that asssited the hair growth? The more the merrier? I started with a hairmax comb and minoxidil, arm aching and getting bored. Then i was told this comb only had 1 laser present with the aid of reflections???Not good but i ploughed on. Lasermax, Sunetics! i have looked everywhere for an alternative that would not ache and for the right price...wow, big cash for these miracle machines.
Anyone give me a tip for the right system? I have lost a litttle at the crown of my head...well its getting worse

I have the big choice of Lasermax 90, Superdome 90, Sunetics(Lot of money) or the JCH CIV-104. The last one is the only one that massages as well as the light therapy and has the most lasers.
Any experiences of the above please inform and with the best price you have found let me know.

I used 104 LASER HELMET for 3 months and I did not see a big difference in the amount of hair I lost plus I do not want the routine of using it 3 times per week. I am willing to sell you my used 104 Laser helmet for best price. You can send me PM if you are interested.