Is there a way to lower cortisol and androstenetriol?

Hi everyone,

I'm a female suffering from diffuse and pattern hairloss, this is just my opinion from what I see. I was working with an alternative practitioner long distance and she had me do a 24 hour urine test that showed I have extremely high levels of cortisol, THF and androstenetriol (5-AT).

She said my numbers were higher then any marathon runner she'd ever seen. She also said this would be an easy fix and that my hair would be fine. She started me on a protocol with 4 homeopathic remedies (for stress, exhaustion and liver), zinc, progesterone in pill form, dhea, iron and phosphatidylserine.

I took this protocol for 3 weeks but I started to get really sick and all of my joints started hurting and my hormones were getting more wacked out because I started getting new symptoms. I stopped everything because it was making me worse, not to mention it was costing me about $500 per month and I ran out of money..lol

Anyways do you guys have any advice on how to lower my high levels of cortisol and androstenetriol (which is a metabolite of adrenal DHEA-sulfate and Testosterone).

Thanks in advance,

Trelly

trelly - Female marathon runners are very prone to producing high cortisol and highly subject to adrenal exhaustion. I've seen this cause thyroid suppression and insulin resistance.

androstenetriol (5-AT) counteracts the immune suppressing aspects of cortisol, so wonder that the steroid profile would look like today.

If you're currently training, would suggest a good break from an active exercise routine. This will allow cortisol levels to plummet hopefully back to normal.

The symptoms you describe sound like immune suppression from high cortisol, so wouldn't worry about androstenetriol (5-AT), but would worry about the cortisol. I have heard of a few cases where very active females were switched from a steady exercise routine towards just walking and in each case allowed a normalization of cortisol levels.

Have you skipped any periods or are you regular?

What type of progesterone were you given? In pill form sounds like synthetic progestin, this could not help you.

I would ask many more questions to get a better handle of your situation, but based on what is known, would continue only on the phosphatidylserine and add magnolia, standardized for honokiol.

CS, I'm a male but ever since I started running this summer (only twice a week), I've been losing crap loads of hair in the shower, could there be a connection?

rogar6 - I wish I knew the answer to this. There is simply no research on this. When I think about the former practices of Dr. Mercola, being a long time distance runner and who used to consume a lot of grains, he seems like a perfect model for hair loss. But that is just a subjective observation on my part.

If endurance exercise does play a role, I do know that cortisol (a catabolic hormone), and a build-up of free-radicals does ensue. In shorter exercise routines, there are some studies that point out some increased endogenous antioxidant activity, so with that said, there is some credence to endurance aerobic activity at least contributing. Maybe we should do an informal poll limited endurance type exercise.

One thing is for sure, It's pretty easy to spot balding runners, but traditionally a lot of them practiced carb loading, so there's all kinds of variables in this.

Hi IH,

Thanks for taking time to respond. I have to clarify something that will probably change things. I am not a marathon runner, the practitioner was comparing my cortisol levels to that of marathon runners she had previously tested. Sorry for the confusion.

If I type up everything that is going on with me it will probably be a book but just to give you some more info - my hair loss started about 2 months after a mid term miscarriage (18 weeks) about 17 months ago. During the pregnancy I was very sick and I had a migraine every other day - Low Progesterone? I have several symptoms that came after the miscarriage that have not left since. They are constipation, hair loss, depression, extreme anxiety, pms, extreme breast tenderness, pelvic and hip pain that started when I was in labor and flares up everytime I try to start a walking routine. Also some newer symptoms are numb feet if I get cold, joint pain and indigestion with a feeling of fullness after I eat just a little bit and it doesn't go away for hours.

I just had a ton of tests done at my regular doctor including ultrasounds, upper endoscopy, colonoscopy, and a pelvic/abdominal CAT scan. Everything was normal except for a small uterine fibroid.

I honestly feel like I'm falling apart so any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks again,

Trelly

trelly - Have you ever had an anti-gladin antibody test? It checks for wheat/gluten intolerance.

Yes, your migraines are mostly likely attributed to low progesterone, but natural progesterone cream is what really does the trick. Were you taking synthetic (patent medicine) progesterone?

The uterine fibroid maybe an indication of an iodine shortage. Have you had the opportunity to try high-dose iodine?

Also it sounds like you could be low thyroid as well. You can test for that using the Broda Barnes test.

IH,

No I've never had an anti-gladin antibody test but they did take a biopsy of my stomach to check for celiac disease, is that something different?

The progesterone came from wild yams so it was not synthetic but I don't think it worked as well as the cream would.

I have not tried iodine yet because I've heard mixed opinions about it. I think I will give it a try anyways.

As for the thyroid I did have it tested several times within the last year and my TSH started out at 4.8 and recently it was at 2.6. I know that's not the tell all test but I also had an alternative doc test my free T3 and T4 and my thyroid antibodies and they all came back within range. Do you think there is still a chance it's not functioning right even with those tests coming back normal?

Do you think that my high cortisol levels are causing my other hormones to be unbalanced and if so is there anything I can do besides the phosphatidylserine?

Also I get overwhelmed with information when trying to figure out whats causing my health problems and I don't know what to focus on first. Judging by my symptoms what do you think I should focus on?

Sorry so many questions.

Thanks again for you time.

Trelly

trelly - Progesterone isn't a sure thing, but if you try it again go for a progesterone that has 5-10% cream, ¼-½ teaspoon, or ½-1 gram (depending how dispensed) twice per day topically (inner thighs/arms, breasts, neck, palms, abdomen; rotate sites). May use daily except during menses (days 8-28 of cycle), or may start during luteal phase (days 15-28); may use maximum dose in week prior to menses (days 21-28).

An anti-gladin antibody test is used to detect sensitivity to wheat/gluten as you may not have celiac, but there is a fair amount of people who have digestive problems which do not have celiac probably as high as 1/3rd of the population.

An easier way is to simply avoid wheat products for a while and see how you feel after a few weeks. You might check out the buckwheat thread that was made yesterday.

Here is how the Broda Barnes test works: http://drbate.com/Ref/thyroid.html

The problem with standard thyroid testing is that it doesn't take a lot into account. One of the major things is that it does not measure thyroid hormone resistance. Just like insulin resistance, there is also thyroid resistance--unfortunately this test is no longer available. Also, your TSH is on the high side anyway. Additionally, a uterine fibroid is a strong hint of estrogen dominance as well as iodine deficiency. Given that 95% of women are deficient, it's not a large stretch that you are in strong need of it.

The confusion on iodine stems from medical dogma: This site will help clear some of that up, but if you search this forum using the google option (not the Inside) you'll find loads of information on iodine here.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/1959949/IODINE-Solution-to-Healthproblems

On the cortisol, you could try the Magnolia as I mentioned previously or you could add additional aids such as Magnesium and Ashwagandha which are excellent for this.

Trelly, my 2 cents that you may read and use or disregard as you please.

What to focus on? Your own emotional wellbeing firstly --- secondly a one or two week detox: eat only raw foods during the day (vegetables, low glycemic fruits), then in the evening have increased focus on what you desire to eat, eat low on the food chain, everything should be prepared in the kitchen, no processed stuff. Herbs that I recommend: damiana and turmeric following the meal, will help restore normal bowel movements.

IH and CPIO,

Thank you guys for all of the great information. I'm very greatful that you take the time to answer so many questions for a complete stranger. I will get started with some of your recommendations and keep you posted of my progress, hopefully I can get to feeling better soon so I can take care of my family again.


Trelly

Hopefully you are on a reasonable diet, along the lines CPIO mentioned:

1. no refined carbs
2. no caffeine
3. no sugar
4. as you are constipated as well - work on fixing that first. Try soluble and insoluble fibres (chia seeds, walnut, etc). You need to become regular, being backed up can cause a host of issues. Even magnesium oxide can be used to break up the jam. Walnuts are wonderful - eat a half cup before/during/right-after each meal - besides other benefits it can help in regularity...
5. How is your sleep pattern? You MUST sleep enough on a regular schedule to help the adrenal / cortisol issue. if you cannot sleep well, get the help of some supps there (anti anxiolytics, magnesium, etc)
6. Try to reduce stress the stress you have - Yoga, walking, music, etc - whatever works for you, find some way to calm your system down.
7. My understanding is that if you have both adrenal and thyroid issues that you must address your adrenals first. Natural Vitmain C + b5/b6 (correct forms) are said to be helpful with above mentioned diet restrictions.
8. Hopefully you did the saliva testing for Adrenal Stress Index test across 4 times in a day and you are not looking at morning cortisol levels ONLY...

Good luck...

I would give maca a solid run. It's also widely used by endurance-type athletes.

http://www.macausa.net/doctor_comments.html

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/macaq&a.htm

http://macatalk.com/faqs/adrenal.html

PS--We've had a couple of female posters here claim that maca made a huge difference for them. One said that it stopped her hair loss. This is remarkable since we have such few female posters and notable that of the few we have had, at least two felt compelled to share the benefit they got from taking maca.

So wait Caustic, your saying regular exercise could be bad for our hair? I mean I workout regularly. Would exercising still be ok on the top 6? I'm not doing heavy endurance, but I'm pushing hard during weight lifting.

Dave228 - No worries there. The concern is limited to endurance aerobics, but especially in women. But whether endurance aerobics hurts men is just not known since there's no research.

To follow up, after researching seb derm, I think it might be sun exposure that is causing all this inflammation. My eyebrows, nose, ears and scalp itch along with losing about 50 hairs from the back of my head and it all started in late May when I started running outside in shorts and no shirt. I also started getting 15-20 min of sun when possible. I've noticed the same cycle happening for the past 3-4 years.

When I moved into my current house from a condo, I started running outside in the warm months and laying out when possible - these are two things I never did when I lived in my condo. Also, because I have a big yard, I'm always outside doing some landscaping which means even more sun exposure.

My plan is to limit my time in the sun as much as possible and hopefully I'll see some difference within the next week or two.

CS, because I've got all this inflammation going on and if I'm correct about the sun, do you think avoiding the sun will make enough of a difference or because I've got the "inflammation ball" rolling, will I need to use steroids for a bit until the intense itching and hair loss subside? Thanks.

Do you have an update to share, rogar6? I've suspected that sun exposure is generally good for hair, unless one is out in the sun for long periods of time and frying the scalp and follicles. However, the sweat from sun exposure must be bad if the hair isn't cleaned soon after. Breeding ground for microorganisms, like the yeast in SD or a bacterial infection, either of which could cause the symptoms described. I'm not sure why that would affect the nose and ears, though, and would encourage you to talk to a doctor if the symptoms haven't improved.