Study : Copper Deficiency a New Reason of Androgenetic Alopecia?

Hi guys,

I was searching infos about copper deficiency because I have some signs :
- snapping hip and shoulders
- Fatigue
- Little headaches
- White hair
- bad mood
- Cold sensitivity (Even if I use Iodine)

I think i adapt to that trouble because I have that symptoms for many years. So I wait for tommorow (monday, close on sunday) to go to the vitamin shop and buy some copper.

So, I know that you speak a lot about balance between Zinc/Copper, Zinc deficiency, some topics about copper deficency but I think it's underrated.

And I have found a study from 2014 "Copper Deficiency a New Reason of Androgenetic Alopecia?" Available here : https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/46661

To make it quick : Men and women with AGA have less copper serum than the control group (without AGA). So they say that copper deficiency might be a reason why we have Aga :



and here's a picture to summarize what they think :



Any thoughts about that ?

Thanks.

Jean-Guy wrote:Hi guys,

I was searching infos about copper deficiency because I have some signs :
- snapping hip and shoulders
- Fatigue
- Little headaches
- White hair
- bad mood
- Cold sensitivity (Even if I use Iodine)

I think i adapt to that trouble because I have that symptoms for many years. So I wait for tommorow (monday, close on sunday) to go to the vitamin shop and buy some copper.

So, I know that you speak a lot about balance between Zinc/Copper, Zinc deficiency, some topics about copper deficency but I think it's underrated.

And I have found a study from 2014 "Copper Deficiency a New Reason of Androgenetic Alopecia?" Available here : https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/46661

To make it quick : Men and women with AGA have less copper serum than the control group (without AGA). So they say that copper deficiency might be a reason why we have Aga :



and here's a picture to summarize what they think :



Any thoughts about that ?

Thanks.

I started taking 8mg of copper per day last year and it definitely improved the texture / firmness of my hair. However, you'll most likely get detox symptoms when you start supplementing copper in any kind of significant dose (4mg +) so prepare for that. I got terrible headaches and cold shivers for a few weeks on it.

There are many people who are experiencing lots of benefits from copper in the 'The Copper Revolution: Healing with Minerals' Facebook group. Jason Hommel has a great book on copper which goes by the same name. However, I think they are over zealous in their recommendations and the notion that copper toxicity isn't real is quite dangerous.

I have seen people have success with copper sulphate topically on the scalp.

Ah yep, that's large amount of copper.

I thaught about 3mg every day. So I might not see any detox signs according to you. I don't want to megadose it.

I don't supplement with zinc, my body isn't dealing well with it. I try to eat a lot of chicken, it seems to be OK that way.

I might give a look to the book, more than the Facebook group.

Thanks for your reply.

The subject on copper is relevant, however more complex that taking copper only.

I've looked this relationship for at least a decade. The short possible answer is
a little bit of bio-available (food based copper) with other co-factors to improve
the copper transport, so that it's more bio-available to tissues and not concentrated
to become toxic.

What's missing from the copper situation is the driver of these issues. One of these
is iron overload and various states of liver dis-ease.

Besides of micronutrients, there's also diet factors...just one example is that foods that
breakdown into sugar will increase iron absorption and decrease copper transport.

A relatively new term within the last ten years is lipotoxicity. this is a type of metabolic syndrome that results from the accumulation of lipid intermediates in non-adipose tissue, leading to cellular dysfunction and death. The tissues normally affected include the kidneys, liver, heart and skeletal muscle. The relationship of hair and the copper transporter
ceruloplasmin are connective if there s evidence of lipotoxicity.

So it's not so much that copper is deficient, it is an issue that the transporter protein is too low, allowing more iron and inflammation to come in.

CausticSymmetry wrote:The subject on copper is relevant, however more complex that taking copper only.

I've looked this relationship for at least a decade. The short possible answer is
a little bit of bio-available (food based copper) with other co-factors to improve
the copper transport, so that it's more bio-available to tissues and not concentrated
to become toxic.

What's missing from the copper situation is the driver of these issues. One of these
is iron overload and various states of liver dis-ease.

Besides of micronutrients, there's also diet factors...just one example is that foods that
breakdown into sugar will increase iron absorption and decrease copper transport.

A relatively new term within the last ten years is lipotoxicity. this is a type of metabolic syndrome that results from the accumulation of lipid intermediates in non-adipose tissue, leading to cellular dysfunction and death. The tissues normally affected include the kidneys, liver, heart and skeletal muscle. The relationship of hair and the copper transporter
ceruloplasmin are connective if there s evidence of lipotoxicity.

So it's not so much that copper is deficient, it is an issue that the transporter protein is too low, allowing more iron and inflammation to come in.

Any ideas on the ideal copper zinc ratio?

CS - thanks for that. It's very informative. So what's the best way to avoid this lipotoxicity?
Of course a good diet, but I mean as a supplement.
And about Iron : is there anything else than giving blood to decrease it?

Mature_hairline_coper : I don't think there is an optimal ratio. According to what CS say, it's more about avoiding this lipotoxicity, not too much iron and optimizing copper transport.
Doing so might be a good first move.

Generally speaking we can probably all agree that polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA's) such as seed oils are not a good idea. One of the reasons besides the generation of pro-inflammatory eicosanoids/prostaglandins is that they actually increase the lipotoxicity phenomenon, and in part by concentrating non-apoptotic iron.

So backing up a little bit, non-apoptotic iron is a term that refers to the role of iron in mediating a form of cell death that is distinct from apoptosis (programmed cell death). Non-apoptotic iron, on the other hand, is involved in a type of cell death called ferroptosis, which is characterized by iron-dependent lipid peroxidation, glutathione depletion, and plasma membrane rupture.

In other words, pro-inflammatory.

So limiting sources -- generally found in processed foods (the PUFA's) will help.

The other thing that helps is that various sugars and alcohol consumption will increase the concentration gradient of iron that will produce hair killing reactive oxygen species (free-radicals).

All of these things leads to the depletion of copper transport proteins.

Then there is the idea of monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFAs). And to some extent, they are able to suppress the accumulation of lipid reactive oxygen species (ROS) and reduce the levels of phospholipids containing oxidizable polyunsaturated fatty acids.

So it may help explain why MUFA's appear to improve some health parameters, and appear to mitigate some dietary indulgences.

There's much more to this whole equation but these are broad strokes.

Thanks CS for that very valuable knowledge.

Is vitamin C good if we consider that it could increase iron absorbtion? I know that you love high dose of vitamin C.

I have seen it's good to avoid butter, a lot of vegetable oil and olive oil in benefit of coconut oil for Cooking and  eating 3 or 4 spoon a day.
Is that a good behavior ? It depends of this lipotoxicity and the copper deficiency right?

I have been thinking : would it be good to fast 1 day per week? Would it help with this lipotoxicity?
Of course HIIT and anaerobic exercice might be very good behavior too.

I hope it's not too much questions here.

Jean-Guy wrote:Thanks CS for that very valuable knowledge.

Is vitamin C good if we consider that it could increase iron absorbtion? I know that you love high dose of vitamin C.

I have seen it's good to avoid butter, a lot of vegetable oil and olive oil in benefit of coconut oil for Cooking and  eating 3 or 4 spoon a day.
Is that a good behavior ? It depends of this lipotoxicity and the copper deficiency right?

I have been thinking : would it be good to fast 1 day per week? Would it help with this lipotoxicity?
Of course HIIT and anaerobic exercice might be very good behavior too.

I hope it's not too much questions here.

In the past (before the carnivore diet with some pizza day cheats here and there during fasting), I would use bolus dose Vitamin C, if my then, "Standard whatever you want to eat diet" induced any kind of toxic accumulation. If I felt the least bit of anything, I could ward of any illness with enough vitamin C.

That said, without carbohydrates, which breakdown into glucose, there's no competitive inhibition over Vitamin C, so there is no need to consume it...and yes Carnivore/animal products do contain Vitamin C.

Carbohydrates reduce Vitamin C effectiveness because of the glucose factor. With carnivore diet, there is so little toxic accumulation, illness doesn't happen.

That said, yes regular Vitamin C consumption via supplement form, such as ascorbic acid will reduce copper transport proteins....However, occasional bolus doses will not make a significant impact.

On the other hand, if consuming Vitamin C everyday, then a food-based form would be best as it contains some copper ion in it and does not use ascorbic acid.

Regarding butter---nothing wrong with it whatsoever...(dairy allergies notwithstanding).

Olive oil and other monounsaturated fat too are good.

The oils to be careful of are the PUFA's (seed oils).

Tropical oils are okay (coconut, palm, etc).

Also depending on where in the world we are, processed baked goods and refined flours have iron oxide added, which is not good. Some countries do not add these in. Anything organic will not have these added in.

Great response from CS.

I am also eating mostly beef, eggs, butter and some raw milk. No need for me to supplement with vitamin c at the moment.

Lost a lot of intramuscular fat und also water due to less system inflammation.