Increasing testosterone?

Despite having taken an interest in this forum for a few months now, there is something fundamental about hair loss that I'm still not clear about.

The question is, is increasing testosterone a good or bad thing? Assuming no treatments were being used to combat hair loss, my basic assumption would be that more testosterone = more conversion to DHT = more hairloss.

...but it seems much more complex than that. Some things which increase T are supposed to be good (e.g ashwagandha, rhodiola), whilst I've read others seem to cause some hairloss (e.g. Tribulus Terrestris, or numerous other natural testosterone boosters used by guys trying to bulk up).

Can anyone give me an answer on this? I ask because for various reasons I think I would benefit from a bit of extra T...but clearly also don't want my hair to fall out.

ataman - This is a great question, because all over hair loss forums a lot of complexity is often over simplified. It definitely is a lot more complex than more testosterone equals more DHT.

Typically most men start to lose hair at around 30, not the their late teens where their T levels are at their peak, so something else is at work here.

Poor glucose metabolism or rather how your body metabolizes blood sugar can influence DHT levels. Having more testosterone improves glucose metabolism and having lower testosterone allows glucose metabolism to become worse.

Impaired glucose tolerance or even a tendency towards insulin resistance, a condition that worsens with drops in testosterone makes DHT much worse. It also makes the inflammation associated with DHT triggering much worse.

Where are you drawing the link from that Ashwaghandha and Rhodiola increase T?

These are both adaptogens and work at improving overall well being. These both work to enhance dopamine in the CNS and hence you feel good and hence you get sexual as well (cause and effect). Ppl think more sex = more T, it is not always the case, there are other ways to be more active and one such source is dopamine.

lund - I have the same opinion regarding those two supplements. It's essentially masturbation through pills, it's a very common misconception, I don't think human body is that simple, you take a pill and bam, there goes the T levels, unless ofocurse you start taking Test. itself. It takes times to create an optimal environment, a lot of people lose patience.

To the original poster : Try weight-lifting, squats, deadlifts, barbell rows, compound exercises with increasing weight, have a clean diet and see how your Test levels go up. Give up masturbation, this can do wonders to amplify the effect.

More T (right form) in your body may increase your desire / interest in sexual activities, but that is not the ONLY holy grail for getting more interest in sex. The sexual chemistry is much more than "T" alone. And dopamine plays a critical role.

It has been stated that everything we do is based on a reward system - things we like, we only like because the brain rewards us with dopamine release. Even sex makes you feel good as we are wired to receive plenty of dopamine during the act itself and at release. There would be other chemicals involved, but the key is dopamine.

Most of the drugs, gambling, sex, eating, - anything that we desire is linked to the reward system which in turn releases dopamine and we feel good.

Researchers took a sexually active male rate and wired the brain such that by hitting a lever dopamine would be released immediately in the rats brain. Now this rat was put up with plump females, good food, etc. Guess what, the rat kept hitting that lever all day long w/o taking any interest in food or the other receptive females. As soon as he was de-wired, he stopped hitting the lever in very short time and went after the food and the females...

I read this research somewhere, will post if I find the link.

Read this link and the other on the subject at this web site, good reads with easy to understand terms:

Your Brain On Sex

Why does a lover pull away after sex

CS - Thanks for that. I'm inclined to think that my glucose metabolism is OK (I'm the wrong side of 35 and still pretty skinny / no beer gut!)...so think I should maybe stay away from the testosterone boosters for now.

lund - Yes, I know they're adaptogens and have used them on and off for a while now. I especially like Rhodiola, makes you feel good, and near invincible at the gym. As regards testosterone, I've read that Ashwagandha has a 'testosterone-like effect' in that it increases rat testicular weight/spermatogenesis etc. Some websites say it increses T in humans but I don't think this has been studied. Rhodiola - When I first looked into this I definitely saw data saying it increased T...but having just scoured google for 10 minutes, I can now see no sign of it (other than numerous positive reviews)

Re. dopamine...yes, definite effect on libido. I sometimes take SAM-e during the winter months and definitely feel more charged shall we say.

I can tell you that I've had sexual benefits from Rhodiola rosea, which I DID NOT BUY FOR THAT PURPOSE. It was an "added bonus," which came on top of the fact that I bought the product for stress reduction, and sure enough I got that as well. I had to try seven different brands, however. I tried Jarrow (bad), New Chapter (better, not much), one which was black gunk in a capsule (Gaia, ugh!), and one from Sweden (Arctic Root) and one from Verde Botanica. I got the best results out of the Verde Botanica, called MIND BODY & SPIRIT. However, something I'll note here . . . I noticed that when I was buying $8 and $12 Rhodiola, I got nothing, just a tiny bit of response and I just wanted more, so I'd try another brand. It wasn't until I was spending like $20 on a box that I got the big time results. So, I think this is an herb that is not quality controlled very well -- I think the cheap stuff just doesn't have much of what you want in it. But -- back to the subject, Rhodiola does not give you an erection, that's up to you. It only gives you more desire. But that's a considerable benefit at times. Good luck!

On increasing test,
What do you guys think of this product :
http://www.cheapuksupplements.com/shop/product.php/352/diesel_test_hardcore.

IT seems to contain a number of products that are deemed 'safe' ZMA,MACA & Rhodiola Rosea.Does contain Trib aswell though

Dr Wong is not a great source imo.