Ten years of Cannabis use..JDP and Immortal

I admire the work you guys put into this site and the sharing of knowledge.
I've been a long time lurker of this forum and others (regrowth etc).

JDP I know you've had family members who have used for quite a while, any advice would be much appreciated.


I recently quit smoking medicinal quality cannabis after about 10 years(some minor breaks in between). Unfortunately, it was not for medicinal use, rather started out recreationally and then I became addicted.

My mental health is all over the place. It's been a full month since I've quit. I know this isn't a long time at all but I have down days, I am having a very hard time managing school and work projects, procrastinating, feelings of anxiety, depression, memory issues, getting emotional easily even while watching tv(endocannoboid system?), feeling ADD symptoms and my hand and feet are tingling sometimes and I am feeling cold easily it seems.

It seems there is zero research/information on the internet that are oriented to those who may have caused brain imbalances with the use of cannabis and supplements that can help.

So far I've been using about 600mg of Algal DHA+3 fish oil caps which brings the total to about 900mg of DHA(clinical studies have shown improvement in memory at 900mg after 6months-not sure if that is valid). Vitamin D at about 5000ius per day.

I read the entire thread that JDP posted(thanks JDP) of Immortals quotes and found that Resv+Curcumin can help repair the endocannoboid sytem? Can you guys list some supps that will help me? How long until I feel the affects of the DHA+fish oil...or will I?

I've considered HTP-5 but do now want to have to use this forever as a crutch-immortal what are your thoughts on HTP-5 and high doses of DHA? Also, I need to consider the fact that in my early days of smoking I was inhaling plant pesticides and who knows what else. anything that could help with this?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Hey. Congrats on cleaning up. You are likely still detoxing. I don't have the knowledge of cs or jdp, but can tell you... this will pass! I been there. I also recommend getting the support of a twelve step program. Recovering from substance abuse is mostly an inside job.

Just get your mind off it. Go to the gym everyday, become a workaholic, get out of your routine.

Homeostasis - The answer to depression is to focus on two primary areas, your intestinal microflora and the Hypothalamic-Pituitary Axis.

Starting with intestinal microflora, it largely determines mood, and it may help regulate the endocannabinoid system (still plenty of research needed to confirm this).

Generally speaking, depression is caused by adrenal fatigue, so boosting your DHEA levels is bound to help.

Nothing wrong with trying 5-HTP.

Homeostasis,

Yeah, as you know I am very much against marijuana. I am also very much against alcohol abuse as well. And yeah, I've also been addicted to both for years back in my High School and College days and a little beyond. I personally went cold turkey on both ... yes, literally, lol. Most of my family and friends are addicted to marijuana or alcohol or pain killers ... it's an epidemic and I don't see any good come out of any after long-term usage.

Anyway, I'm not sure if it will help but you can try lithium to see if it helps http://www.iherb.com/Nutrient-Carriers-Incorporated-Advanced-Research-Lithium-Orotate-200-Tablets/6766?at=0

You can also try high dose taurine as well and similarly avoidance of MSG/free glutamic acid.

You can also try niacinamide at 500 mg x 3 or 4 or 5 to see if it helps. If taking Niacinamide you should also take a natural source of B vitamins such as the Brewers Yeast that CS uses.

hope this helps

I stopped smoking cannabis 3 months ago after an addiction of 15 years. I smoked an average of about 3 joints of Dutch white widow every day. In the weekend even more. The first month is horrible but it will get better with time. When i now get an urge to smoke i make a cup of Kava. I also take 200mg 5-htp every other month and L-tyrosine on the month i dont take 5htp. I'm very happy now i quit, i wake up easier, dont have anymore slime in my throat and cough all day. Weed is not as innocent as everybody says. I became very lazy, unmotivated and apathetic from it. Looking back i just wasted 15 years of my life and the money i spend on it was just ridiculous. Oh yeah and stay away from friends that smoke for a while or tell them not to do it when you're around.

Maup, whatever you do, stay away from this stuff called K2 Spice. It is suppose to be synthetic weed. I can count the times i ever smoked weed on both hands (im 25) and my buddies got me to smoke this because it won't show on drug test. This stuff was absolutely terrifying. It made me paranoid, sick, hallucinate, delusional and thought i was dying (lasted 6 hours). It pretty much turned me off to ever smoking ANYTHING again (probably a good thing). My question is why did this effect me so bad when all it gave my buddies was a little high? They smoke weed everyday and I haven't smoked weed in 3 years. Is it because the receptors that THC effects from was already occupied when they smoked the K2 and mine were all clear. (I also took one hit, pretty sad). They banned it in Kansas today, and Missouri pretty soon...

I am new member here on IH, but have been visiting for a year. I have implemented CS major six in the last 8 months and I can tell the difference. Keep up the great work!

therick18 - Thanks for the feedback!

Thanks guys.

Odd thing is I don't have the temptation to go back probably because I know it doesn't allow me to achieve my goals and is not good for my mental health to say the least.

JDP, I'll look in into the lithium thanks. Also about the Niacinamide-I've read about it helping recovering alcoholics greatly. So your saying niacinamide X 3-5 plus a normal dosing of brewers yeast? Which one does CS use? I have taurine on hand what do you consider high does? and how often?

CS,

Generally speaking, depression is caused by adrenal fatigue, so boosting your DHEA levels is bound to help

.

Whats a good way to increase dhea other than magnesium? Does cardio qualify? I'm waking up groggy/cranky even after 8+hours of sleep.

What about pain and emotions? There is supplement combination for this, (curcumin & resveratrol) that modulate the endocannabinoid system

Do you feel those would be helpful CS?^

Hey Maup-Congrats!

So to clarify your using HTP-5 at 200mg per day for a month then cycle over to L-tyrosine for a month at what dosage? and You feel it is helping? Are you experiencing any ADD symptoms since quitting?

Homeostasis - The endocannabinoid system is regulated by blood sugar conditions.

I second jdp710 on the use of lithium orotate. Take a look at these topics, here which there is evidence that supports help in fighting addiction (just in case there is ever a desire).

http://www.immortalhair.org/apps/blog/show/1897941-prevent-neurological-diseases-with-a-controversial-mineral

http://www.immortalhair.org/apps/blog/show/1908667-more-about-lithium

Getting your vitamin D to a nice, high level will elevate the mood, and increase your testosterone level, and is probably the most effective and simple way to get your DHEA levels up.

If not already using, would recommend ALC and ALA to help out in mood boosting.

Homeostasis wrote:
So to clarify your using HTP-5 at 200mg per day for a month then cycle over to L-tyrosine for a month at what dosage? and You feel it is helping? Are you experiencing any ADD symptoms since quitting?

Yes i take 200mg 5-htp then switch to 500mg l-tyrosine every month because you cant use serotonin boosters like 5-htp all the time. You have to take breaks. L-tyrosine is a dopamine booster and these two neurotransmitters are good against depression and sleepproblems and stuff you get after you quit smoking. I feel it has helped me so give it a try. Also omega 3 helped.

Thanks Maup. I'm switching over to krill oil as well...I have only read amazing things about it and see why CS recommends it highly. I am convinced. Thx again.

What do you guys think of consuming via vaporizer/oraly? After not smoking cigarettes for three years but still smoking weed I thought why not avoid this cancerthing

I don't see how people can be so quick to suggest a drug such as lithium orotate, whose close relative, lithium carbonate, has known long-term detrimental effects upon the body. And no, long-term use of lithium orotate has not been proven to be safe.

Not to mention we barely even understand lithium's mechanism of action. You could be ruining your brain.

empty - Actually this isn't true. Lithium orotate is not a drug.

Please read my article(s) here:

http://www.immortalhair.org/apps/blog/show/1897941-prevent-neurological-diseases-with-a-controversial-mineral

http://www.immortalhair.org/apps/blog/show/1908667-more-about-lithium

CausticSymmetry wrote:empty - Actually this isn't true. Lithium orotate is not a drug.

Please read my article(s) here:

http://www.immortalhair.org/apps/blog/show/1897941-prevent-neurological-diseases-with-a-controversial-mineral

http://www.immortalhair.org/apps/blog/show/1908667-more-about-lithium

Lithium orotate is a drug. You're using a rhetorical strategy to disassociate the mineral from the pharmaceutical industry. Unfortunately, when you ingest it to enhance bodily function, reduce the symptoms of a disease, or to cure a disease, it becomes a drug by definition. You can't dispute the possible negative or support the possible positive features of a mineral by disassociating it from the "mainstream" definition of a drug. While such manipulation is clever, it's illogical.

I did read those articles. I find some of the claims made by them to be... a stretch. I had to go hunting for the sources of them, as you did not cite anything in the articles. A lot of them were just paraphrases of articles by a couple physicians found on the internet.

Anyways, a few items in your articles need to be addressed.

One indication of the human need for lithium is that prison inmates, particulary those who are in for violent offenses typically have 400 times less lithium in their hair than the rest of us.


For reasons unknown, their uptake of protective lithium is very low. A similar finding has also been found in an deficiency of Omega-3 fatty acids, since both Lithium and Omega-3 protect against depression and violent behavior.


If there were a way to cut down on violent crimes, it would make better sense to treat our water supplies with natural lithium salt, instead of neurotoxic fluoride.

You're a smart guy. I think it's pretty obvious from your posts here. But this part of your article is outright ridiculous. Where in the world did you find the evidence for this? There are so many glaring issues with your claims here that it nearly makes me angry. Maybe I should take some lithium to control my aggressiveness as I read this!

1. The lithium content in a prisoner's hair in no way expresses the human need for the mineral. What you've written here implicitly supports that prisoners are biologically broken and it is their fate that leads them to jail (not their environment... fundamental attribution error anyone?). These claims are part of the "othering" process insisted upon by middle-to-upper class noncriminals to differentiate themselves from and concomitantly ascend themselves above the inferior prisonfolk. If we find some sort of biological or mental difference in the prison population, then we've officially justified our absurd use of a system that has failed to curb drug use and crime while serving as a direct antithesis to democratic values.

2. Lithium does not "protect" against "depression and violent behavior." Your use of wording here really does a number on spinning meaning into a cryptic mess of oversimplification. According to the studies you did not cite in your article, here and here, lithium up-regulates and stabilizes the uptake of glutamate in the synaptic cleft. In other words, lithium artificially alters the way the brain works, just like psychiatric drugs and recreational drugs do. The problem is that there is no support for the biological theories of mental disorders, including depression and perhaps "aggression" (since you think it's a pathology). You're just changing the way your brain works, and that just so happens to coincide with the symptoms of an aggressive or depressed person. Simply put, you're fucking your brain up, and there are no long-term studies proving that the damage won't be permanent.

3. What you're advocating here is, quite literally, mind control. For a moment, really think hard about what you're saying here. Let's follow your logic. First, violent prisoners have been magically found to have a hyperbolic "400 times less" (this makes no sense, by the way, nor does it imply significance) lithium in their hair, thus, lithium is the cause of violent behavior in inmates, not any other of the myriad of possibilities that you did not exclude. Second, since violent inmates are biologically inferior to us, we should focus on what they do not have, ie lithium, and apply it to ourselves to prevent us from descending to their level. Third, we all drink water, so let's throw this mineral (drug) into the water and people will never become the trash existing in prisons.

Basically, you want to numb the activity in our synapses, thus creating an abnormality in brain function, in order to reduce violent crime. While we're at it, let's throw fluoxetine and chlorpromazine into the water so that no one ever becomes sad or psychotic. And yes, that's the same logic you're using in the section I quoted. Maybe, if we suppress all of the negative traits of human beings, humanity itself will improve... (Note: I do not agree with the fluoridation of the water supply so do not assume this. I think the fluoridation of our water supply violates our rights)

I'm running out of time here, so I'll have to approach the science you cited later. Before I post this, I'll just gloss over the whole treatment of alcoholism bit.

Lithium has another overlooked use as well, the treatment of alcoholism. In stunning research that could have been reported by mainstream media, lithium reduces alcohol intoxication and helps stabilize mood.

You mean this study?

[/quote]Lithium orotate in the treatment of alcoholism and related conditions.
Alcohol. 1986 Mar-Apr;3(2):97-100. Sartori HE.
The subjects were 42 alcoholic patients (33 males and 9 females) who were treated with lithium orotate during an alcohol rehabilitation program in a private clinical setting for at least six months. They derive from a total number of 105 patients who received this treatment initially, while the remainder discontinued the treatment within six months. The data were collected from a private practice record and the follow-up varied between six months and 10 years. The 42 patients studied displayed a multitude of complaints in addition to chronic alcoholism. These included liver dysfunction, seizure disorders, headaches, hyperthyroidism, affective disorders. Meniere's syndrome, liver and lung cancers. Thirty-six of the 42 patients studied had been hospitalized at least once for the management of their alcoholism. Lithium orotate was given, 150 mg daily, with a diet low in simple carbohydrates and containing moderate amounts of protein and fat. In addition, calcium orotate (for hepatic involvement), magnesium orotate, bromelaine, and essential phospholipids (for cardiac problems), and supportive measures were instituted, if required. Lithium orotate proved useful as the main pharmacologic agent for the treatment of alcoholism. Ten of the patients had no relapse for over three and up to 10 years, 13 patients remained without relapse for 1 to 3 years, and the remaining 12 had relapses between 6 to 12 months. Lithium orotate therapy was safe and the adverse side effects noted were minor, i.e., eight patients developed muscle weakness, loss of appetite or mild apathy. For these patients, the symptoms subsided when the daily dose was given 4 to 5 times weekly.[/quote]

This study sucks. Where's the placebo? For all we know, outcomes are the same or better for people who don't use lithium in this programs. What else is wrong with this study? A bunch of other treatments were used, the people had more issues than just alcoholism (look at the list), the outcomes really don't seem all that great to me, and the researchers acknowledge adverse side effects which they downplay as "minor."

The APA discredited this research. But I don't really trust them because they think psychiatric medicine works. So who knows.

empty - The info on lithium salts (natural), not the high dose carbonate forms are from clinical observations.

As to the reasoning for low levels of lithium in violent people. It's likely because of low levels of mineral chaperone rubidium. If Rubidium levels are low, then lithium cannot be transported throughout...but really, mainstream research cannot be relied on when researchers are far from understanding how the body works.

Maybe 1% at best. Some vitamins are made in the flora, and they are needed to assimilate minerals. The gut affects the brain...just this alone was only discovered in the last decade.

Homeostasis wrote:
I recently quit smoking medicinal quality cannabis after about 10 years(some minor breaks in between). Unfortunately, it was not for medicinal use, rather started out recreationally and then I became addicted.  

My mental health is all over the place. It's been a full month since I've quit. I know this isn't a long time at all but I have down days, I am having a very hard time managing school and work projects, procrastinating, feelings of anxiety, depression, memory issues, getting emotional easily even while watching tv(endocannoboid system?), feeling ADD symptoms and my hand and feet are tingling sometimes and I am feeling cold easily it seems.

It seems there is zero research/information on the internet that are oriented to those who may have caused brain imbalances with the use of cannabis and supplements that can help.

I started smoking during my late teens and continued using until my early 20s. Like many other young people that become involved with the drug I was convinced it was a safe drug and a "rebellious" way to expand one's mind. Marijuana does have profound emotional and psychological impact due to its highly psychoactive properties. Amidst the rush of intense thoughts and emotions, there is a potential to realize things about oneself and the surrounding world that would have otherwise been inaccessible in a sober state.

But in retrospect, doing a cost-benefit analysis, I would say the losses are greater than the gains at least in my particular case.  

There is now increasing evidence that using marijuana use during the teenage years is correlated with early onset schizophrenia in susceptible individuals.

I know a couple of young men from my hometown whose lives were literally destroyed by cannabis. Both of them were otherwise intelligent and capable individuals that had good futures ahead of them. One person lost his stability and eventually he could not even hold down a minimum wage job. The other person became schizophrenic, and during his 20s he was regularly hospitalized for psychosis and eventually he ended up killing someone while in a psychotic state.

In recent times the trend toward legalizing marijuana has been validated within popular culture. It is a commonplace notion that marijuana is a completely safe drug. While that may be true comparatively (considering the effects of the more dangerous counterparts), it is obvious that marijuana has considerable risks.

It's obvious that the people promoting the use of cannabis are often not the most intelligent individuals. Many of them have highly unproductive and unsuccessful lives. And often politicians and other public figures endorse the marijuana-smoking culture are just trying to be part of the "in-crowd". Many of them have minimal experience with the drug, and the extent of their use is "that one time in college" when they took a bong hit while at a party.

With regard to reversing the long-term effects on the brain and the associated behavioral problems, such as decreased concentration and productivity, it is not clear to me how long it will take to reverse the damage. Personally I have been focusing on living a very pure life. Have been trying to live a very a wholesome life, eliminating pornography completely and minimizing the use of social media platforms. Also, a very strict diet which I was already following as part of my hair loss regimen.