Immortal, why no beta-sis?

Immortal Hair,

Howdy.
Nice forum you got here.

I used to read your posts over on regrowth.com and I wondered why you stopped taking beta-sitosterol.
This is the only thing that has worked for me and I have been regrowing hair with it for over 5 years now.

The only downside to it ,that I have found, is that hairs from beta-sis seem to take years to go terminal. I've got 2 temples full of 1/16"-1/8" inch regrown hairs that have been stuck in catagen phase for at least 2 years.

I have tried to find different natural ways to get them to go terminal, such as taking Gamma-O, but have been unsuccessful.
It's rather like having 5 o' clock shadow in the temples.

I await your reply, and possible advice to "jump the regrown follicles to the next phase" with bated breath...

what does beta-sitostero do? Thanks

WidowsPeak - Welcome!

When it came to using Beta-Sitosterol, I had hoped the more the better. But when reports were coming through that other users had libido problems I started to realize that maybe I was suffering these effects myself. I had used gradually increasing amounts throughout years to later find it was effecting me.

After Beta-Sitosterol I switched to a lower dose of phytosterols in the form of Nettle root, which had other constituents in it.

Ultimately, I started looking into why we have sensitivity to DHT and how to combat that aspect instead of blocking DHT.

Nettle root was replaced by Ecklonia Cava (Fibroboost) and had seen a dramatic improvement.

What else are you currently using?

GoodThings - Beta Sitosterol is a a sort of plant "cholesterol." It's a waxy substance from plants referred to as phytosterols. Avocados contain between 50 to 100 mgs of the stuff per 100 grams. It's a potent inhibitor of 5-alpha reductase.

CS - You mentioned "Ultimately, I started looking into why we have sensitivity to DHT and how to combat that aspect instead of blocking DHT."

Could you expand on that and explain how your regimen takes care of this problem? Fin and other prescription type 5AR inhibitors seem to me to not necessarily be a very good way of combating hairloss because of the side effects and potential for disturbing the natural hormonal action the body is supposed to undertake. Since I've used these in the past and have had side effects on them, I'm looking to not necessarily shut down my 5AR (and hence DHT) production) because I think it serves a purpose. Am I off base on this thought? So the question is, how to we stop hairloss AND maintain the levels of DHT we are supposed to have naturally?

johnt - There appears to be evidence (not overwhelming) that the use of irreversible 5-alpha reductase inhibitors such as finasteride and dutasteride may actually increase the sensitivity of the androgen receptor.

So when these chemicals are withdrawn it seems that the process of desensitization varies from individual to individual. Some never seem to become desensitized after cessation (fortunately that is much more uncommon).

Androgen sensitivity equates to high reactive oxygen species (free-radical generation) in those receptor sites.

To make those receptors more "immune" from attack there are three known ways and one theoretical way.

The three known ways are to increase insulin sensitivity by incorporating a large reservoir of antioxidants, particularly ones that allow your body to generate the more powerful variety, such as Glutathione and superoxide dismutase.
Balding types such as typically have lower glutathione reserves and a high Reactive oxygen species activity in the follicles.

So Ecklonia Cava and Lipoic Acid especially are going to resolves this factor.

Insulin resistance which is frequently unnoticed by doctors until the problem turns into something more serious causes silent inflammation. Not only are the free radicals higher, but DHT is sent through the roof, wound healing is impaired, good verses good bacteria reverses, oxygen transport slows, yeast thrives. The entire body is under siege. This condition increases the expression of certain Matrix Metalloproteinases (MMPs) enzymes that destroy hair follicles.

This is resolved with the above supplements along with vital minerals, and some diet modification.

Essential fatty acids are important, since most of us intake too many of the wrong kind of "essential fatty acids." While Omega-6 is considered essential, we getting more than we need, because the Omega-3 is too low. This causes much higher 5-alpha reductase expression, and of course more DHT.

So a very important diet modification is to emphasize Omega-3 and reduce Omega-6 intake. The one exception is GLA, which is an Omega-6, but has the capability of cutting off the inflammation pathway associated with other types of Omega-6 fatty acids.

Then the theory part involves phospholipid integrity. Ever wonder why non-balding types can smoke, drink and they still have a thick head of hair? Non-balding types have fully function phospholipid generation.

Phospholipids act like a shield and can protect against inflammation or attack of the hair follicle via proteins. In non-balding it takes a tremendous amount of DHT in order for their hair to suffer. The reason is probably their bodies ability to manufacture phosphatidic acid.

There are a variety of potential reasons why phospholipid integrity diminishes, but one thing is certain, everybody makes less of them as we age.

Just two years ago, it was found that a defect in the LIPH gene, which encodes a phospholipase called lipase H can make or break hair.

One example of how Phospholipid presence could protect against DHT is how Lysophosphatidic acid reacts with Smad signaling via Transforming Growth Factor Beta. When DHT is present, it can signal TGF-beta, which increases MMPs of the nature to degrade hair follicles. Phosphatidic acid, from lysophosphatidic nullifies the negative effects of TGF-beta.

To make a long story longer, dietary phospholipids along with omega-3 fatty acids should aid to the fight against hair loss.

CS - That was a VERY informative reply. Thanks.

So is reducing dht much of a concern of yours? If so, how do you go about reducing it... mainly with Omega 3s and other dietary steps? Or are you pretty much taking the stragtegy of letting dht occur naturally and combatting the steps in hairloss that occur after dht is present?

CausticSymmetry wrote:
Then the theory part involves phospholipid integrity. Ever wonder why non-balding types can smoke, drink and they still have a thick head of hair? Non-balding types have fully function phospholipid generation.

Phospholipids act like a shield and can protect against inflammation or attack of the hair follicle via proteins. In non-balding it takes a tremendous amount of DHT in order for their hair to suffer. The reason is probably their bodies ability to manufacture phosphatidic acid.

There are a variety of potential reasons why phospholipid integrity diminishes, but one thing is certain, everybody makes less of them as we age.

I believe, CS, you created a thread stating that non-balding types have this special gene which makes them immune to hair loss. Something about this gene goes to work when it detects the presence of DHT. Something like that. Is this what you're talking about? I'm a little confused. If not, can we supplement this? And does your regimen address this issue?

johnt - reducing the factors that cause too much DHT is the aim, rather than blocking DHT itself. So yes, making sure there is adequate Omega-3 fatty acids in the diet, and plenty of antioxidants (both fat and water soluble) to reduce 5-alpha reductase and to reduce the damage that DHT is causes (in that order).

When a meal is consumed that is high starch, it breaks down into glucose, the faster it makes the blood sugar rise, the more insulin is secreted to handle it. The more insulin pumped out, the greater the DHT levels.

When antioxidants are consumed, this reduces the amount of insulin pumped out, it also helps blunt glycation, which is the destructive process of aging. Insulin is the hormone of death, so supplements are taken strategically to reduce the impact of the negative foods.

Also certain meals are recommend to just eliminate. Pasteurized milk (not raw) is a death sentence for hair, especially the low fat variety. This spikes insulin levels, especially with the added rBGH in it.

Cereals are also death, so imagine eating a bowl of cereal with pasteurized, low fat milk. It's a deadly follicle combination.

GoodThings - Not the genes themselves so much, but the gene expression. Genes really act as a group and their expressions are based on diet and the environment.

Based on how people are, we tend to have inherent weakness in one area over another. In us, we have a less efficient system regarding certain phospholipids.

Lysophosphatidic acid, which is also phosphatidic acid protects the follicles against the negative effects of DHT signalled TGF-beta.

It doesn't get in the way of TGF-beta, but it alters Smad signalling in such a way as to nullify the negative effects.

Smads are a group of signaling mediators and antagonists of TGF-beta, Activin and BMPs. Smad-4 for example, affects hair follicle differentiation involving BMP signaling. Smad-7 significantly affects hair follicle development and differentiation by blocking the TGF-beta/Activin/BMP pathway and by inhibiting WNT/beta-catenin signaling via ubiquitin-mediated beta-catenin degradation.

So how would we get the necessary amount of phospholipids in our diet? What do we supplement with to get these? Is this through the high dose Lecithin you mentioned in another post?

johnt - Krill oil, high PC lecithin, egg yolks, and Phosphatidylserine.

CausticSymmetry/Immortal,

My regimen includes:
1. Vegetarian diet, but avoiding soy, due to GMO concerns.
a. 4 Organic Food Bars per day (22 grams protein 80% raw and organic, made with almond butter, dates, brown rice protein, flax, raisins and sesame seeds)
b. 6 grams Chlorella Pyrenoidosa (with C.G.F. and all 8 essential sugars) and 60 grams hemp per day for protein and to keep the body alkaline.
c. 15 oz. Naked Strawberry Kiwi (strawberries have iodine for healthy thyroid function)
d. 15 oz. (7.5 of each) Organic Vegetable and Organic Mango juice
e. 8 oz. Organic Hummus
2. 1 Now Eco-Green Multi Vitamin per day
3. 2 hours of exercise per day (riding bike and chi kung/kung fu)
4. No shampoo - rinse hair with warm water to clean
5. Complete celibacy (for 145% boost in testosterone every 7 days and to avoid loss of zinc, magnesium and testosterone)

In regard to phospholipids, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the chlorella algae that I take is quite high in phospholipids.

Barring steps 4 & 5, however, I was doing all of this and slowly losing my hair, until I found beta-sitosterol.
I originally took saw palmetto for prostate problems and found that, over a period of a month, my temples became:
first oily,
then itchy with "tingling" sensations that would occur within 1/2 hour of ingesting saw palmetto
and finally, that a few hairs regrew.

I looked online and found that people were taking saw palmetto for hair loss and soon found that the main ingredient in saw palmetto was beta-sitosterol.
As I said, beta-sis has been slowly regrowing my hair for the last 5 years, but I am looking for something to get the regrown hair to go from catagen to terminal in a more timely fashion.

I have been researching Ecklonia Cava and I think you are really onto something and that this could very well be EXACTLY what I was looking for.

First and foremost, increased trans-cranial bloodflow from Ecklonia Cava, sounds promising.

Allegedly, regular intake has been shown to increase acetylcholine levels by 40%!
My research has shown that higher acetlycholine = higher Nitrous Oxide levels and NO stimulates and maintains hair growth.
I had been maintaining higher testosterone via celibacy for the same pupose (e.g. high T level= high acetylcholine level= high NO).
I really like the idea of attacking this from a different angle/reinforcing my current regimen.

In addition, Ecklonia Cava has anti-inflammatory effects vis a vis its inhibition of the NF-kB inflammatory pathway.
I have noticed,(and this may just be a personal delusion), but when I place the back of my hand on the crown (where I first lost hair 12 years ago), it is warmer to the touch than the front of my scalp, where I have lost very little hair.
This leads me to believe that inflammation is an issue I need to address.

Lastly, though I'm quite svelt, the ancillary effect of a 60% down-regulation of DGAT sounds promising.
Have you noticed any weight loss, since you began taking this?

WidowsPeak - Ecklonia cava can cause weight loss. It did not happen for me, since I've been on a tidal wave of supplements that keep one lean anyway.

EC really has a lot going for it. I'm quite certain that it increases pituitary growth hormone release also.

WidowsPeak - I find your regimen interesting. Besides the stuff you mention above (ie, the hummus, raw food bars, etc) what do you eat on a typical day to sustain your activity level? How long have you been on the regimen you describe above, and has your hair benefited in your opinion (besides the beta sitosterol)?

Also, about the celibacy, do you mean complete as in never? Or do you mean for 7 days and then continue for another 7, etc.?

Caustic,

Thanks for the info.
I've ordered some FibroBoost online.
It has enough going for it, that I won't be disappointed if it doesn't make me more hirsute.
I am hoping, however, that the combo of EC and beta-sis, is a potent one.

johnt wrote: WidowsPeak - I find your regimen interesting. Besides the stuff you mention above (ie, the hummus, raw food bars, etc) what do you eat on a typical day to sustain your activity level? How long have you been on the regimen you describe above, and has your hair benefited in your opinion (besides the beta sitosterol)?

What I wrote is my daily diet, but I forgot to add that I have 2 Quorn Naked Cutlets with 8 0z of Hummus for dinner every night.
It is a healthy diet, but it is expensive.

I've done the research and have found that I can be just as healthy living on smaller portions of hemp, chlorella, veggies and fruit and having brown rice and organic beans (lentils, kidneys, etc. no soy) make up the "lion's share" of my meals.
This will enable me to add, not only the FibroBoost that Caustic recommends, but also 2 supplements that I want to try.

Namely...Salba, a South American "superfood" and Longevinex, which is a supplement with Resveratrol, Vitamin D and a few other goodies.

johnt wrote:Also, about the celibacy, do you mean complete as in never? Or do you mean for 7 days and then continue for another 7, etc.?

Unlike 99.999999% of the planet, I'm completely celibate.
I don't date, so I have unlimited freedom and extra $$$ to spend on my health and hair.

I do get a surge from the rise in T levels every 7 days, however.
I use the energy to do kung fu, work on the book I'm writing and/or on some of my art and music projects.

I was married a long time ago and I recall having very low energy levels, most of the time.
Most of my friends who are married or living with someone, think I'm insane.
However, they can't deny that, although they are 5-10 years younger than me, they look and feel older and more tired than I do, every time I see them.
(I'm able to pass for someone in his late 20s and I'm almost 40.)

I know a few guys who make spare $$$ selling sperm, and their contract stipulates that they you can only "sell" once a month, no exceptions.
They all have their hair, whereas everyone I know who's in a relationship is going bald.

WidowsPeak wrote:

I know a few guys who make spare $$$ selling sperm, and their contract stipulates that they you can only "sell" once a month, no exceptions.
They all have their hair, whereas everyone I know who's in a relationship is going bald.

That´s just coincidence I can assure you .I know lots of married guys and lots of guys who love sex and they have tons of hair!Nothing to do with,really!But if you´re happy that way that´s the most important thing isn´t it ?

And they have lots of energy too !!

Not to sound conspiratorial, but....whenever this gets mentioned it seeems that someone feels the need to refute it.
In fact, the original article from the Japan Time has been scrubbed from the Net.

From the Japan Times

Sunday, May 13, 2007

Lock that zipper to help keep your mane thicker

A significant portion of adult males in Japan express concern over hair loss. Now, perhaps even more so, as new revelations suggest linkage between hair loss and sexual activity.

"We received 1,400 responses to a survey of our members," says Keigo Yoshida, executive vice president at the Add Hair Zomo Center in Yoro-cho, Gifu Prefecture. "In addition to questions related to frequency of shampooing and dietary preferences, we also questioned them regarding their sexual activities. About 70 percent of the respondents said they ejaculated between 14 to 30 times per month."

Readers' indulgence is requested while Asahi Geino delves into a somewhat sticky subject: Can, the magazine asks, any correlation be established between seminal excretions and hair loss?

According to an unnamed journalist who covers dietary topics, although water composes 90 percent of such emissions, their basic ingredient is a protein.

"For a long time men have been advised to take a diet of meats, eggs and other foods high in proteins," he remarks. "Hair is also created from protein intake."

Ergo, a new theory holds that excessive ejaculation of seminal fluid may deplete proteins and would impede hair growth.

"Viewed objectively, it (i.e., excessive ejaculation) can result in premature aging, reduced metabolism and thinning hair in males from middle age and beyond," says Add Hair's Yoshida. "We've found that compared with the older generation, today's younger men tend to be more sexually active. Even though they boast a robust metabolism, they're burning up too many proteins. As lifestyles change, so do sexual lifestyles, and that's why you see more young guys showing signs of premature baldness."

An unnamed source in the hair restoration business tells Asahi Geino a guideline has actually been developed to discourage overactive libidos from ravaging one's hairline.

"Using this formula, the ideal frequency (of emissions) can be calculated by taking the person's age in years, dividing the number by 10, and squaring the result. Thus for a man age 30, the ideal frequency is once each 9 days, and for age 45, once every 20 days," he explains.

In other words, to assure a shaggier pate, men should bite the bullet, take cold showers and engage in restraint in all things carnal.

"It may be a bit stressful for males in their teens and 20s to stifle their sex urge to that degree," he acknowledges. "So there are advantages and disadvantages to these guidelines."

Some men try to have it both ways by supplementing their dietary intake with Zinc. Dr. Hideo Yamanaka, director of the Hibiya Clinic in Tokyo's Toranomon, advises Zinc be taken in daily doses of 15 to 20 mg.

Indeed, word from the street has it that male performers in adult videos regularly pop Zinc along with multivitamins, so as to aid their anatomy to "recover rapidly" from exertions in front of the cameras.

Acknowledging that quite a few of the adult-video industry's more illustrious performers have shiny pates, Dr. Yamanaka points out that genetically predisposed male pattern baldness, commencing from the front, may indicate the presence of higher levels of such hormones as testosterone, androsterone and androstane. Many such men, who also have heavy growth of facial hair, are known for their sexual prowess, but their occupation may be exacerbating their hair loss.

Certain supplements that I cannot narrow down seem to have helped me in this area. My suspicion is that Maca might be helping with this factor.

I've been using Maca since Autumn last year if memory serves me correct and since that time I have not had any inflammation on the forehead/scalp area after expulsions.

Maca does increase sperm count, so that is notable. I believe the theory of ejaculation is true, since prolactin levels rise significantly, which kicks up a rush of DHT. If I'm right about Maca, it wouldn't be a surprise since it has been shown to help balance out DHT quite well.

Really guys,for what I see,it´s really the opposite

CausticSymmetry wrote:

Also certain meals are recommend to just eliminate. Pasteurized milk (not raw) is a death sentence for hair, especially the low fat variety. This spikes insulin levels, especially with the added rBGH in it.

Cereals are also death, so imagine eating a bowl of cereal with pasteurized, low fat milk. It's a deadly follicle combination.

Causticsymmetry this is a nice thread, its been very educating for me, although I sometimes have trouble keeping up with scientific terms.
This part took my interest, I eat cereals every morning with low fat milk(although I am not sure if its pasteurized or not). :/ Should I stop eating it ? and If I do stop, what should I replace my breakfast with ? Does oatmeal enter this category aswell ?

Sissi--

There are plenty of bald guys that are having sex all the time as well. Ejaculation triggers the mechanisms that can lead to hair loss, but these mechanisms only matter IF you are *vulnerable* to them. Not everybody is.

This has gone too far.

What's up man, haven't seen you in a while.

I'm assuming that you think the ejaculation accusations have gone too far? Science is pretty sound behind it.