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RU58841 - does it work?

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NYJets
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Post  Weser Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:43 am

Can anyone attest to this working? Any reputable sellers?

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Post  Biffy Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:18 pm

I would rather invest extra money in CB, which is far safer. It works for maintenance though.

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Post  Weser Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:35 am

Biffy wrote:I would rather invest extra money in CB, which is far safer. It works for maintenance though.

What is CB?

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Post  Biffy Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:12 am

CB-03-01, now rebranded to Clascoterone. Works with a similar mechanism as RU, the only difference is that it stays local.

Clascoterone (CB-03-01) does not affect DHT levels, as it acts by inhibiting androgen receptors rather than DHT conversion/production. It also shows strong selectivity for the local tissue where it is applied with minimal peripheral uptake/activity, as it is rapidly metabolized in the blood.

Problem is the price right now, but if you are interested to learn more please PM to get you to the source (I don't have any benefit from this). Also, I would not expect regrowth, but long term maintenance.

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Post  NYJets Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:18 am

Biffy wrote:CB-03-01, now rebranded to Clascoterone. Works with a similar mechanism as RU, the only difference is that it stays local.

Clascoterone (CB-03-01) does not affect DHT levels, as it acts by inhibiting androgen receptors rather than DHT conversion/production. It also shows strong selectivity for the local tissue where it is applied with minimal peripheral uptake/activity, as it is rapidly metabolized in the blood.

Problem is the price right now, but if you are interested to learn more please PM to get you to the source (I don't have any benefit from this). Also, I would not expect regrowth, but long term maintenance.

what is the cost per month and do you have to mix it yourself?
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Post  follijinxed Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:55 pm

I ordered a bottle of 5% RU58841 solution from Anagen Inc. (50mg / ml)

Last night I applied my first 1mL dose at my hairline. 20 hours later I started experiencing slight heart palpitations, dizziness and shortness of breath. It's been about 4 hours and my symptoms are getting better.

I got freaked out and poured it down the drain.

I will say that my crown has a slight itch right now while my hairline does not.

I will try some other topicals first before even thinking about taking RU again at a much lower dose. I did get the same exact side effects from nanosomal minoxidil 15 years ago.

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Post  MikeGore Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:21 pm

I am also considering RU58841. This was something I never seriously considered before. I mean it is a chemical, it's experimental, it doesn't even have a proper name for God sake. But I am so desperate that I have to admit that I am reading about this now.

My worry is the side effects though.

Ever since my MPB problems happened, I haven't touched finesteride or minoxidil at all. And I have read the horror stories of post-finesteride symptoms and issues with minoxidil also.

Would you say that RU58841 is safe than FIN and MIN?

Also I read that CB-03-01 is safer than RU58841, but for "mainentence only". So with RU58841 we have a real chance of seeing regrowth but not with CB-03-01?

Is the mechanism of action of CB-03-01 different than RU58841?

follijinxed you said you threw out the bottle after first use. That must have been some very serious palpitations. Considering the cost of RU58841 and throwing it away, should we stay away from this product?

Also I wouldn't want to have issues like erectile dysfunction or gyno with RU58841. Should we be worried that might happen with RU58841?

To prevent systemic effect does that mean we should not use dermaroller together with RU58841?

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Post  follijinxed Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:16 am

No I'm very worried. I woke up and my resting heart rate is 110bpm, before going to bed it was 70.

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Post  shaftless Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:45 am

How about a lotion or cream made of crushed finasteride pills and some carrier cream or liquid? You can control the dosage easily too. If it's too weak and you're not experiencing any side effects add a couple more pills. There is a fin cream already on the market from keeps.com. You have to consult their online doctor first I think but you have to agree to having to buy it for years from them. They automatically deduct your credit card and keep sending it to you. I wouldn't want that personally. I'd rather try to make it myself.

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Post  follijinxed Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:11 pm

MikeGore wrote:I am also considering RU58841. This was something I never seriously considered before. I mean it is a chemical, it's experimental, it doesn't even have a proper name for God sake. But I am so desperate that I have to admit that I am reading about this now.

My worry is the side effects though.

Ever since my MPB problems happened, I haven't touched finesteride or minoxidil at all. And I have read the horror stories of post-finesteride symptoms and issues with minoxidil also.

Would you say that RU58841 is safe than FIN and MIN?

Also I read that CB-03-01 is safer than RU58841, but for "mainentence only". So with RU58841 we have a real chance of seeing regrowth but not with CB-03-01?

Is the mechanism of action of CB-03-01 different than RU58841?

follijinxed you said you threw out the bottle after first use. That must have been some very serious palpitations. Considering the cost of RU58841 and throwing it away, should we stay away from this product?

Also I wouldn't want to have issues like erectile dysfunction or gyno with RU58841. Should we be worried that might happen with RU58841?

To prevent systemic effect does that mean we should not use dermaroller together with RU58841?

I was on Fin 15 years ago for about 6 months and got some water retention and serious brain fog. I only tried out RU because it is topical and it isn't supposed to be absorbed systemically. I did not dermaroll, I just applied a very small amount to my hairline.

RU is very strong and I wouldn't touch it.

I will be waiting for CB to come out. It it supposed to do the same thing but not get absorbed systemically. I have no idea if it's in the same class of drugs or not.

I just took a long nap and my heart rate has come back down but I still feel it's a tad bit too fast compared to 48 hours ago before taking RU.

I spoke to someone who also had sides from RU, he said he took for an extended period and then quit and side effects lasted almost a month. He then restarted for only 2 days and then quit again, side effects lasting one week.

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Post  follijinxed Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:33 am

Just an update. I actually took less than I originally thought. The eyedropper I was using to apply didn't have markers on it and I've realized it is likely only 0.5mL. So the dose I applied was likely only 0.5-0.75mL

I still am not 100% back to normal. I've talked to people who said it takes at least a week for side effects to go away when they had them.

According to my Apple Watch, before taking this, my resting heart rate was 50, now it's around 65.

Do not, under any circumstance, take RU58841

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Post  MikeGore Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:12 am

That sounds terrible. Sorry to hear you went through that.

It does sound like RU58841 is worse than finesteride.

Is RU58841 like a topical finesteride? Or is it actually worse than finesteride?

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Post  follijinxed Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:14 am

MikeGore wrote:That sounds terrible. Sorry to hear you went through that.

It does sound like RU58841 is worse than finesteride.

Is RU58841 like a topical finesteride? Or is it actually worse than finesteride?

It's worse, don't take it.

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Post  MikeGore Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:21 pm

follijinxed wrote:
MikeGore wrote:That sounds terrible. Sorry to hear you went through that.

It does sound like RU58841 is worse than finesteride.

Is RU58841 like a topical finesteride? Or is it actually worse than finesteride?

It's worse, don't take it.

Guess my excitement for RU58841 is short lived. I never took finasteride because I was worried about systemic effect. Fin being oral and also it's mechanism of action being upstream, it would affect a lot more things within the body. What I had read about RU58841 is that it is downstream, so it would only affect the conversion into DHT just in the receptor sites and not affect serum levels of DHT. Also it is topical.

Would CB-03-01 achieve the same thing more safely. Also considering setipiprant. Is that a safer alternative than RU58841 than? But there mechanism of action is different from what I know.

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Post  follijinxed Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:38 pm

I would assume CB would be much safer since it has FDA approval and a different class of compound. I was just going to try RU until CB came out anyway.

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Post  CausticSymmetry Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:45 am

Side-Effects of RU58841 and why adverse effects exist despite an initial positive safety profile.

This is Russian Roulette - Only can suggest something like TUDCA to help the liver break this stuff down.

https://amzn.to/3wICXOr

Unfortunately, there has not been phase III clinical trials for this material. Hence, there is no publicly available longitudinal data concerning its side-effect and safety profile in humans. Indeed, the last known study to have verified its efficacy and performance was published in 2005 [1]. No studies in the literature have been scoped to identify and risk and side-effects of this product. However, the side-effects can be extrapolated based on its classification as a non-steroidal anti-androgenic compound. Testosterone is typically converted to DHT by an enzyme known as 5α-Reductase. An excess of DHT is implicated in androgenetic alopecia; RU directly competes for androgen receptors with testosterone and DHT, thereby limiting the effects of these androgens at the target site. Hence, the following side-effects are anticipated:

Reduced libido.
Reduced volume of ejaculate
Erectile dysfunction
Gynecomastia
Major Depressive Disorder
Generalized Anxiety Disorder
Insomnia
Headache & dizziness
Fatigue & lethargy

Although the old study with a very limited number of subjects didn't report these side effects, all of these side effects were reported by users who used the product for three months or longer.  Thus it is not true that RU-58841's effect is only limited to the area of application, and does not influence the serum (blood) androgen level.

{1}. Munster, U., et al., RU5-8841-myristate--prodrug development for topical treatment of acne and androgenetic alopecia. Pharmazie, 2005. 60(1): p. 8-12.

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Post  MikeGore Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:09 am

Never heard of TUDCA before. Thanks for letting me know about that CS.

Could TUDCA potentially reduce the possible side effects by RU58841?

Sorry but a little confused with this sentence here: "Although the old study with a very limited number of subjects didn't report these side effects, all of these side effects were reported by users who used the product for three months or longer."

It sounds like all the side effects were reported by all the users? Sounds like a contradiction in there, or perhaps I'm reading it wrong.

This was my understanding of the mechanism of action for RU58841 in the diagram below:

RU58841 - does it work?  WrFQYd1eednZoki-CT5K2PS2gq3u_6-5gdoR0EqDJY8D0igzGXKlmO54abFjCNiqN_kDEzuEsgMeAzvG1oilbattga253wVYy_pb6dbJinJuVBq9ZzEPEWhEIiKeDfM

Wouldn't that mean that at least it would be safer than finasteride? Or is this actually false?

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Post  CausticSymmetry Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:02 am

The original study did not report any side-effects, so it was assumed it was safe. Because of the small number of participants and the limited testing length.


_________________
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Now available for consultation (hair and/or health)
http://www.immortalhair.org/health-consultation
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Post  follijinxed Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:49 pm

Thanks CS for that study. I had seen that study before but had forgotten about anecdotal forum posts about heart and chest pains. That is what dissuaded me from taking RU years ago.

However, back then RU was very difficult to come by and from questionable sources. Seeing as how so many people are now taking it and it can be found in the USA for "research purposes" I decided to give it a go.

My side effects have mostly gone away, thankfully, after 3 days but I'm still not quite back to baseline. But keep in mind I only took half the recommended dose, topically, only one time. Imagine prolonged use.

Here's a list of my sides:

1) increased heart rate starting 20 hours after application and lasting 3 days. I woke up the next morning with a resting heart rate of 120 (my normal is about 45), which was terrifying.
2) I could not sleep for more than 2 hours at a time for the next 48 hours and I had heavy cold sweats.
3) No morning erections until 3 days later.
4) Dizziness and headache starting after 24 hours and still present, though tapering off 3 days later.

Nobody should be taking this.

When you wake up with a heart rate of 120, you'll forget about your hair problems real fast.

There is speculation in the other forums that since RU is so strong, it will strongly bind to androgen receptors in the heart and lungs, somehow this also blocks oxygen from going where it needs to, causing ischemia. That is, RU causes a chemical heart attack. I worry that for those that don't have acute affects like I did, they are gradually destroying their heart over time.

I will wait for CB to come out later this year since it is FDA approved and is supposed to have little to none systemic absorption.

I will also try TUDCA, just for maintenance.


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Post  MikeGore Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:05 pm

Thanks for the heads up guys!

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Post  follijinxed Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:57 pm

Just posting an update. After about a week my heart returned to normal. After that I started experiencing libido issues for another week. Now, I think I'm finally back to normal. I will say that my hairline still does not itch like my crown does.

Breezula (CB-03-01) is supposed to come out later this year and it is supposed to work in a similar manner but not have the bad side effects that RU does. I'm definitely going to try it since it is also FDA approved.

I would absolutely not recommend that anybody take RU. I've shaved my head and it looks fine.

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Post  MikeGore Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:35 pm

I am really considering buying CB-03-01 powder, but have no idea how to use it.

How will I make it into a topical and put it one my head? Or is it something that can be used internally? Any advice?

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Post  follijinxed Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:34 pm

I will buy the name brand stuff first even though it will be pricey.

If you don’t know what you’re doing then don’t do anything.

Once on this forum 12 years ago I made a DMSO and caffeine brew some people were talking about. I literally lost half my hair in a week. Fortunately it mostly grew back.

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Post  shaftless Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:28 am

Will this cb-03 stuff be available over the counter? Like you don't need a drs prescription for it?

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Post  shaftless Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:01 am

Apparently it's a prescription drug for acne and comes in a cream. It does show results for hair loss as well. But there are side effects. This is from wiki....

Side effects
The incidences of local skin reactions with clascoterone were similar to placebo in two large phase 3 randomized controlled trials.[1][10] Suppression of the hypothalamic–pituitary–adrenal axis (HPA axis) may occur during clascoterone therapy in some individuals due to its cortexolone metabolite.[1][9] HPA axis suppression as measured by the cosyntropin stimulation test was observed to occur in 3 of 42 (7%) of adolescents and adults using clascoterone for acne.[1][9] HPA axis function returned to normal within 4 weeks following discontinuation of clascoterone.[1][9] Hyperkalemia (elevated potassium levels) occurred in 5% of clascoterone-treated individuals and 4% of placebo-treated individuals.[1]


Not sure how unhealthy a suppressed HPA axis or raised potassium levels is. Hope it's not life-threatening.

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