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What if the flat earth returned ?

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What if the flat earth returned ? - Page 3 Empty Re: What if the flat earth returned ?

Post  john3333 on Thu May 04, 2017 4:33 pm

ImmortalHair should have more subforums so we can discuss topics ranging from politics to Earth's structure.
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Post  cdto2012 on Mon May 15, 2017 5:37 am


I try to take the high road most of the time, but I just could not resist posting this. The lander really does look like a high school science play, or a low budget zombie alien movie prop.


What if the flat earth returned ? - Page 3 Moon_l10

To redeem the post I will detail a but about how absurd the computing power was to power the pictured tinfoil trash can above.

Beyond assisting with broadcasting station communications and other electronic functions, the onboard computer had to

" a system that can control a 13,000 kg spaceship, orbiting at 3,500 kilometres per hour around the moon, land it safely within metres of a specified location and guide it back from the surface to rendezvous with a command ship in lunar orbit. The system has to work the first time, and minimize fuel consumption because the spacecraft only contains enough fuel for one landing attempt. "

http://www.abc.net.au/science/moon/computer.htm

Also it had emergency plans, and auto pilot functions/modes.

So what kind of super processing computer was used ?
" a grand total of 74 kilobytes of memory" - no disk drives , just wires wound around metal cores


" While it was handy, AGC wasn't particularly powerful having 64 Kbyte of memory and operating at 0.043MHz. In fact, it was less equipped than a modern toaster!"
http://www.futurecar.com/article-477-1.html

" Put simply, the iPhone 6's clock is 32,600 times faster than the best Apollo era computers and could perform instructions 120,000,000 times faster "

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Post  cdto2012 on Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:51 pm

Has been quite a while since I updated this thread. In summary it is an exercise in scientific method,  challenging assumptions,  critical thinking, and constructively exploring paradigms with diligent logic. Of course this parallels with exploring natural hair treatments and new methods, often requiring self experimentation and inventing new processes.

I was listening to a fringe video today about how little trust there is among the general population of the government being truthful .  When it comes to the government space program, so many people take the data as truth. The data is often admitted CGI, composites,  enhanced, filtered, and artistically dramatised. In the end, very few people have any direct verification methods to evaluate with, but get upset when somebody challenges the fundamentals of space "facts".

I don't expand this thread often so it does not diffuse the impact of my own DT-CPR method that absolutely regrows terminal hairs slowly. Well it took radical and well thought out methods to develop such a radical method that has been heavily detailed and documented, and works.  

So here is the paradigm altering addition for today.  For the traditional model of orbit dynamics is explained as follows. The earth circles the sun every year.  So on a summer  at night you are looking away from the sun into the universe, and see a set of stars.  

When it is winter,  the earth is on the other side of the sun, on the other half of the orbit. At night you are looking away from the sun in the opposite direction from where you were pointed in the summer.  You should see a whole new set of stars, as you are looking at a different area of the universe.  Well the stars pretty much stay the same, big dipper , Orion etc, all year around,  not moving much . At least a great deal of the stars should be hidden part of the year. Hidden behind the earth and the sun.

Obviously what is observable is not in harmony with the traditional model explanation.

If there is a good science explanation I hope it gets posted.  I am not a big star gazer,  but this seems pretty obvious. Take a look at the simple diagram and the logic is quite clear I think.    

What if the flat earth returned ? - Page 3 Orbit_10

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What if the flat earth returned ? - Page 3 Empty Blue Crude

Post  cdto2012 on Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:02 am

On page 2 of this thread I posted about oil being not exclusively sourced from dead animals or plants;     and speculated that it could be made from carbon and pressure in the earth or synthetically.  This is known as abiotic oil.

Recently I discovered that since 2015 Audi and the German government have been producing "blue crude" from air, water, and renewable energy.  The pressure is not super high (400 psi) and the temperature is that of a cooking oven.  It is so much like normal oil that it can be refined by standard processes to a diesel fuel.  The myth of limited oil supplies may be just to justify the price. Think about all of the oil products .. plastics, lotions, asphalt,etc.  Then electricity cooking, etc.. that can be  basically sourced from air derivatives.

If oil is being renewed in the ground, and it can be mined and processed for the low of $27 USD per barrel with profit;  what would happen to the price if it was known to be not rare or a limited resource ?

This is just real evidence of how proper modelling and evidence can lead to real life improvements and opportunities.  This fuel is super clean and would improve the world. Exploring beyond the traditional modelling of "oil is from a bunch of dead stuff "  takes some learning, but inquiries like this yield actual breakthrough solutions.

"The fuel is created from carbon dioxide, water, and electricity with a process powered by renewable energy sources to create a liquid energy carrier called blue crude (in contrast to regular crude oil) which is then refined to generate e-diesel  "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-diesel


https://www.eniday.com/en/sparks_en/sustainable-blue-crude/

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Post  sdguy on Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:41 am

cdto2012 wrote:If there is a good science explanation I hope it gets posted.  I am not a big star gazer,  but this seems pretty obvious. Take a look at the simple diagram and the logic is quite clear I think.

There are good scientific explanations that debunk ALL of your crazy flat earth theories, you just don't have either the desire or the brainpower to do a simple search to find them. This latest post is one of your most foolish though because it can be debunked using only basic logic. To start, however, you are indeed correct that with the accepted model we would not see the same constellations at night during the summer as during the winter when looking out along the x-axis in your drawing, and the truth is that we don't.

http://planetarium.ipsd.org/Subpage.aspx?id=282

But the most glaring hole in your claim is that you've completely forgotten the y-axis, which does not change with the seasons, resulting in circumpolar constellations that are indeed visible at night during the entire year.

cdto2012 wrote:So here is the paradigm altering addition for today.

Haha, you do make me laugh though, I'll give you that.

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Post  cdto2012 on Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:12 pm

This is a complex subject and your explanation link was quite useful.  I will admit , that I am not much of a star gazer.. so could be in error about this complex subject.  I will share what seems obvious with your links response to the claim I made.

You are referring to the tilt of the Y axis that provides the seasons.  This is indeed different from the X rotation around the sun positioning.  The star maps provided in the links are missing the latitude observation point, we have to guess from the text " Indian Prairie School District 204".  Lets just assume somewhere in the northern latitudes.   Of course as the article claims.. you do not see some of the same stars year round.  They mention the X rotation, but this could be just as easily explained by Y axis rotation;  meaning that the tilt of the earth hides some of the stars in the south.  

Some constellations are always visible due to the "upward" view never being diminished.

For me,  it comes down to the claim
" In winter, we see the constellation Orion in the south at night and during the day the Sun is in the sky with the constellation Scorpius. In summer, we see the opposite (we see Scorpius at night and Orion is in the sky during the day).   "

If this is true, then for me I will agree that my limited understanding of the subject has been answered in your favor. The idea of unchanging stars as evidence is not valid.  Thanks for sorting that out.  I only want to deal with the scientifically based evidences.  I do not know, and am not able to measure all things about the variety of subjects.   I am interested in useful modelling, not bending stories to fit  assumptions.  

Xenon and I debate most of the time, but we found some common ground on some of these far out topics.  Glad that on our forum we can contribute things to consider together .

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Post  vg on Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:51 am

cdto2012 wrote: critical thinking

if in 2019 we believe in flat earth, homoeopathy and that we never went to the moon, there is no critical thinking to see here.

You have curiosity, that's good. Keep it for real science.

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Post  cdto2012 on Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:44 am

yes , lets keep it to real science.

Not just judgemental stifling jargon of closed minded opinions. There are plenty of topics here, pick a few and offer evidence, measurable examples, scientific logic, anything but bland elitist condemning opinions of the all knowing spectator.

As you can see from the last few posts, real science is welcomed and appreciated here.

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Post  vg on Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:12 am

sci show channel is a good start.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZYTClx2T1of7BRZ86-8fow

They always post links( only scientific sources) about what they say in the video.

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Post  cdto2012 on Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:20 pm

vg wrote:
cdto2012 wrote: critical thinking

if in 2019 we believe in flat earth, homoeopathy and that we never went to the moon, there is no critical thinking to see here.

You have curiosity, that's good. Keep it for real science.


Translation :   Anybody that believes in flat earth, advanced alternative natural healing, and doubts the government regarding their "facts of history"  =
  person void of the ability to make logical conclusions and is in deep denial and ignorance

furthermore   -- You have the curiosity of a 12 year old pondering the mysteries of real science, but please grow up and learn what the real indoctrinated educated elite know to be true.

It's 2019,  believe what I do, and stop being stupid with baseless opinions and beliefs supported by no evidence


---------------------------------

There is a reason this thread has almost 5000 hits,  it is not because it is even a big debate post. Mostly it is just thoughtful evidence that people find interesting.   If it was just a bunch of my opinions and sloppy logic, it might have 500 hits. Also there are plenty of people that have different conclusions,  but I see very few proper refutations posted.  As you can see, they are welcomed here.

I am being quite resistant to frivolous opinionated posts, because we do not need 2000 posts of people    thinking that they are super important and their personal opinion is superior--- far out weighing any constructive evidence or logic previously posted.

Neither is   it useful to post general you tube channel with around 150+ videos that do not directly relate to the topics discussed.

Any poser can post general youtube links and act like they are the grand professor of the science world, and all other logical paths are irrelevant.  Just another way to suggest, here 12 year old kid, try a science channel, at least you can learn some basics.

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Post  vg on Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:12 pm

It's not personal. It's just sad to read these threads.

All of us have the ability for critical thinking. Ι don't underestimate this fact.

The moment you understand how scientific method works, is the moment you know that earth is not flat(just an example)

I posted the youtube link only because this channel is a perfect representation of how you examine a topic with real science. It has nothing to do with ''flat earth'' indeed. I really don't think they will bother making such videos, to be honest. There is no reason to do something like that.
This channel has plenty of interesting topics if you like science.

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Post  Jdp710 on Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:54 pm

cdto2012 wrote:On page 2 of this thread I posted about oil being not exclusively sourced from dead animals or plants;     and speculated that it could be made from carbon and pressure in the earth or synthetically.  This is known as abiotic oil.

This is just real evidence of how proper modelling and evidence can lead to real life improvements and opportunities.  This fuel is super clean and would improve the world.
/

If I never got involved in health related subjects in my life, I probably would have been involved in this area. But instead of cheaper sources of power, I’d probably look into this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GeyDf4ooPdo


Except instead of spinning the wheel in onedirection, spin the wheel in two opposing directions the way scalar works.

Interestingly, some lights on ufo’s have been seen to do this.

I wonder if megalithic structures like the recent one in florida coral castle was built like this.


Further when Combining with super high frequencies that are currently being used to levitate objects would make objects more stable.

Again, some ufo’s have been left an area of high radiation.


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Post  1alexie on Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:04 pm

This will trigger another debate.

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Post  cdto2012 on Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:50 am

Feel free to post your videos of general scientific interest. I have worked for years in renewable high tech energy and had a major lab for many years. I don't even mind if people want to post about far out things like the "secret space program" and it's many rabbit holes.

 This was meant to be  a refreshingly interesting thread, some entertainment value, some exploratory, and some just to see how the theories held up in a public place.  

Even the science channel that was previously linked looked interesting, it just was not directly related to the debate subject.

We have an approved protected place to freely share constructive ideas,  let it be something that people contribute to,  and make it unique and valuable.

My friend just had to do some work in China, he said he could not access You Tube, and many other social media and useful sites.

Here have some freedom, and an audience of progressive and creative people... these treasures can lead to the breakthroughs that shape the future.

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What if the flat earth returned ? - Page 3 Empty Winds , rotation, and offset

Post  cdto2012 on Mon May 06, 2019 6:03 am

Hi,   I got interested in finding the real calculations that planes use for navigation on long hauls,,   for the offset of a destination point.  Below I gave a link that shows an animation of the effect.  Simply if your destination was on the equator and it was a 12 hour flight,  the earth would have moved your destination about 12,000 miles away !   No minor effect , considering that this is half way around the world.  So there should be a standard method, calculation, or explanation for how this is compensated for .  The official effect name is the  Coriolis Effect.

So i searched physics pages , flight pages, and perhaps somebody can source the flight standard calculation used in flight manuals.. would be appreciated. I could not find one reference to this calculation or method that was standardised.  What I did see was

-a bunch of blurry conjecture about if the atmosphere/wind was locked to match the surface rotation speed ( not observable that the thin density air at 30,000 feet only travels in one direction with rotation  // making travel in one direction to be much slower against the constant wind direction)

- claims that this massive movement was negligible

- a bunch of foolishness about the  Coriolis Effect so uniformly effects wind patterns that rotation is already factored into the flight pattern by wind calculations.
I will put this to rest with a graphic of the prevailing winds . They are not uniform direction and vary by latitude and thermal conditions. Far from a constant.


prevailing winds are not uniform direction

What if the flat earth returned ? - Page 3 Map_prevailing_winds_on_earth


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_prevailing_winds_on_earth.png 


animation of situation
https://www.classzone.com/books/earth_science/terc/content/visualizations/es1904/es1904page01.cfm?chapter_no=visualization

flight instruction comments at bottom of page
http://www.askacfi.com/3494/coriolis%E2%80%A6earth%E2%80%99s-rotation%E2%80%A6and-the-airplane-oh-my.htm



in the physics forum a guy offers the obvious calculation of what the ball model offset would be for a rotating model.. yeah that is just physics.  But when applied to real flight .. he goes on to say the effect is offset by air pressure or uniform direction wind.. and cancels the Coriolis Effect . Another way of saying ... no calculation is needed due to uniform wind direction,  duh


willem2 writes

" Now a ballastic missile outside of the atmosphere would just keep on accelerating, and the error in position would grow quadratically, but in an airplane the rightward speed would grow until the force of the air resistance produced enough force in the direction to the left, to produce an acceleration that canceled the coriolis acceleration

Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/the-coriolis-effect-and-air-travel.705337/

Other guys seem to reference just use your compass bearing.. well compasses are based on magnetic north, and the earth "rotates east to west " .. so it seems to me that even if you headed west for example .. that would not help with the destination being 12000 miles away and not needing to adjust the original path of flight .

Probably somebody will adopt one of the other explanations offered.. fine.


Guess I should edit in that some recommended to just follow land beacon points.  Well GPS is based on a bunch of calculation assumptions such as where is true sea level on a mountain at on a curved surface ?  And I think GPS drops out in some ocean remote areas,  would have to update that old study to be sure. But it is amazing that it is still a challenge to track planes over the entire ocean with so many ( fake )  satellites up there .
https://www.popsci.com/airplane-tracking-mh370-adsb  


Ok so on to to the obvious.   Back to the high altitude weather balloon .  In a windless day , you should be able to travel to high altitudes and float in the low density non directional wind atmosphere.. and return to the surface thousands of miles away due to the rotation over the hours.  This should be a travel option even in a hovering plane or blimp.. but it is not realistic due to the lack of rotation .

The other factor that makes this a more complex is that if you headed north from the equator , the curvature dropoff  is around 6600 feet every 100 miles . Travelling at 500 mph that is over 30,000 foot  drop every hour !  That is a huge factor that should be included in the calculation. Also as you travel north the radius of the earth decreases and rotation speed decreases... so there should be a massive amount of flight training on this critical subject.

Then comes the moving runway situation . runways are normally orientated by the local wind pattern .  If you were flying in from the south - to the equator to an north/ south runway... the runway is moving across the horizon at 1000 miles an hour . That is 16 miles shift every minute.  Not observed or calculated for in real life.

In the beginning of the thread I did extensive  consideration of the foolishness of  --  air being locked in vertical columns anchored to a fixed surface point .. travelling in a uniform direction theory-  

Anyhow more than enough content here.  I had basic short range pilot training ,  so I can work with the basics.   Plenty of areas to explore for counter evidence. The complex subjects are just background to introduce the observable and simple things that really matter .. like the speeding runway example ..  There is so much complex science that relies on assumed foundations.. so we could debate physics forever. What matters to me are the simple and observable things that make us wonder a bit in everyday life.

I will also add this extensive video from a polarising source.   He points out that if a plane was chasing a destination at 500 miles an hour, and the rotation was moving the destination away at 1000 miles an hour.. obviously would never arrive unless special paths were organised .  

minute 12:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ax_YpQsy88

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